Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 03-12-2003, 10:09 AM

I don't see a call for violence there, only a statement of a person's own beliefs.

Helen

seanie · 03-12-2003, 10:12 AM

And he is expressing a desire to execute all unrepentant homosexuals over the age of 21 in a spirit of unconditional forgiveness.

Surely that counts for something?

Autonemesis · 03-12-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
I don't see a call for violence there, only a statement of a person's own beliefs.

Helen

Would you find it acceptable if he had instead called for the execution of any unmarried woman over 21? How about the execution of any Jews over 21? Calls for the execution of a group on account of their mere existence are far beyond the boundaries of civil discourse.

Unless you're in KKK meeting, I suppose.

HelenM · 03-12-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kind Bud
Would you find it acceptable if he had instead called for the execution of any unmarried woman over 21? How about the execution of any Jews over 21? Calls for the execution of a group on account of their mere existence are far beyond the boundaries of civil discourse.

Unless you're in KKK meeting, I suppose.

I didn't say I agree with what he said. I simply said I didn't think it was a 'call' for anything but merely a statement of his own beliefs.

If you think stating a belief like that ought to be a bannable offense then by all means suggest it to the IIDB policy-makers.

Anyway, there's a difference between what he said and your examples because as far as he is concerned, unrepentant homosexuals are choosing to be so. Whereas Jews don't choose to be Jewish. I suppose unmarried women may or may not have chosen to be unmarried.

Helen

seanie · 03-12-2003, 10:30 AM

Interesting distinction.

So if I said Old Man was an "evil, annoying, idiot, fuck" that would clearly constitute an unacceptable and gratuitous insult.

But if I said "I believe Old Man is an evil, annoying, idiot, fuck" then that's merely an uncontentious statement of my own beliefs.

Cool.

hezekiah jones · 03-12-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Old Man
[Homosexuals] physically repel me.

I'm sorry to hear that. Finding that "special someone" can be a frustrating experience sometimes. Maybe you should try not coming on so strong, when trying to meet a gay lover? Have you tried the gay karaoke bars? They are lots of fun.

ju'iblex · 03-12-2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Old Man
No & no, I would never contemplate becoming "friends" with one. They physically repel me. In any case, given that I believe all unrepentant homosexuals over 21 ought to be executed, they are hardly likely to want to be friends with me.

oh, really?

*starts to tap Old Man rapidly on the shoulder and stroke his cheek lasciviously*

come on, I REPEL THEE PHYSICALLY! I repel, get out, go. Isnt my touch disgusting?

Isnt it strange, how i a heathen, and a harlot is able to follow the teachings of Jesus' love and acceptance better than the most devout Xian? It really is strange, but hardly surprising. What old man wouldnt be bitter at a religion that is founded on greed, manipulation and hatred. A religion used to cover and hide people's own little pathetic unfounded biases. How about we start following some more teachings eh? Youre the Christian, start listening.

19For it is written:
___"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
_______the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[3]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Corinthians. Go, take your wisdom, or is it foolishness, its really quite difficult to tell these days, and leave.

Bizarre also how the execution of homosexuals is nothing which Jesus preached, as he stood before the 'harlot' <one of your favourite words no doubt>, and funny how it has some stark parallels with Hitler. Actually, not bizarre, just painfully ironic.

Quote:

Nevertheless, the bible's message is one of uncondiional forgiveness, and that all men must repent in response to it. Have you?

wow, thats a fucker of a backflip old man.

Scotty · 03-12-2003, 12:07 PM

This is something I wrote and posted a while ago that nobody responded to, seems appropriate to this thread:

Quote:

Genesis and the Fruit:

A tree with a fruit that is forbidden to eat. This fruit contains "knowledge of good and evil", obviously good and evil includes nudity (which I didn't know was evil, or maybe it is good?) because they felt shame or embarrassment, which I didn't know was evil either.
Now, wouldn't it make sense that since "good and evil" weren't known by Adam and Eve, that disobeying God's orders wouldn't be considered evil/bad?
If nudity is evil (or good) so must disobedience. Hence, they didn't know any better, they were as children.

That doesn't make sense, God sure didn't think that out too well.

But then I realized something else. If eating a fruit because somebody told you not to is enough of a "sin" to punish you with death (or eternal damnation take your pick), then other seemingly worse offenses would end up being justified by death.

Things like adultery, or homosexuality. These offenses would seem so terrible and unjust by the "Analogy of Fruit Death", that I could see why people would feel justified in killing somebody for that act.

It also leads people to think that they are horrible people for other minor acts. If "Fruit causes death" is all you have to do to gain God's wrath, then masturbating should at the very least mean you are the most horrible human being on the planet, and should really be put to death...

Masturbate=God's wrath (might as well be death)
Swear=God's wrath (might as well be death)
Adultery=death
Eat a fruit=death
Don't believe what I believe=death

No wonder people have such low self-esteems and think they are no good. How does this stuff survive for 2000 years (or whenever it was written)?

It is like everyone who believes this must be kept in a perpetual state of childhood, otherwise once they grew up, they would shrug it off like a bad dream.

What does this all lead to? Can you imagine what this would lead to?

I don't have to say do I?

-Scott

trillian · 03-12-2003, 01:30 PM

I myself am one of a minority orientation. Just because 90% is born one way and the other 10% born another doesn�t make any of the 10% �evil� persons. I cannot help my natural preference. I wasn�t taught to be this way- it is how I was born- it is genetic.

For many many years people like me were forced and beaten into submission (in some places this still happens). It appeared that a persons orientation could indeed be changed�that the offensive and abnormal person could adopt normal behaviors. If they sincerely prayed to God, he would give them the strength to change! AHHH! Success!! But it would never feel natural for them and they certainly would revert back once the �programming� was stopped.

Scary to think that if I was born just a few hundred years ago, I may have been burned at the stake as a witch (for surely Satan was inspiring me)! I would never want to be cured. I am not defective. I do need to adapt somewhat because society is so geared the other way, but that�s just one of life�s challenges.

The idea that there is an invisible being that deeply cares about such things that are natural is preposterous.
BTW Homosexuality is found to naturally occur all over the animal kingdom. Did they choose as well?

winstonjen · 03-12-2003, 01:50 PM

And there's another benefit of homosexuals - it helps reduce population growth, which is needed in today's society with 6+ billion people.

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03-12-2003, 10:09 AM	#61
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	I don't see a call for violence there, only a statement of a person's own beliefs. Helen

03-12-2003, 10:12 AM	#62
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	And he is expressing a desire to execute all unrepentant homosexuals over the age of 21 in a spirit of unconditional forgiveness. Surely that counts for something?

03-12-2003, 10:30 AM	#65
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	Interesting distinction. So if I said Old Man was an "evil, annoying, idiot, fuck" that would clearly constitute an unacceptable and gratuitous insult. But if I said "I believe Old Man is an evil, annoying, idiot, fuck" then that's merely an uncontentious statement of my own beliefs. Cool.

03-12-2003, 10:46 AM	#66
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Originally posted by Old Man [Homosexuals] physically repel me. I'm sorry to hear that. Finding that "special someone" can be a frustrating experience sometimes. Maybe you should try not coming on so strong, when trying to meet a gay lover? Have you tried the gay karaoke bars? They are lots of fun.

03-12-2003, 01:30 PM	#69
trillian Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: OC Posts: 1,620	I myself am one of a minority orientation. Just because 90% is born one way and the other 10% born another doesn�t make any of the 10% �evil� persons. I cannot help my natural preference. I wasn�t taught to be this way- it is how I was born- it is genetic. For many many years people like me were forced and beaten into submission (in some places this still happens). It appeared that a persons orientation could indeed be changed�that the offensive and abnormal person could adopt normal behaviors. If they sincerely prayed to God, he would give them the strength to change! AHHH! Success!! But it would never feel natural for them and they certainly would revert back once the �programming� was stopped. Scary to think that if I was born just a few hundred years ago, I may have been burned at the stake as a witch (for surely Satan was inspiring me)! I would never want to be cured. I am not defective. I do need to adapt somewhat because society is so geared the other way, but that�s just one of life�s challenges. The idea that there is an invisible being that deeply cares about such things that are natural is preposterous. BTW Homosexuality is found to naturally occur all over the animal kingdom. Did they choose as well?

03-12-2003, 01:50 PM	#70
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	And there's another benefit of homosexuals - it helps reduce population growth, which is needed in today's society with 6+ billion people.

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