Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jat · 06-01-2003, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luiseach
Well, all I can say about 'American Culture' is that it is the reason my young, naive and idealistic parents decided to leave the country of their birth for the 'land of opportunity.'

They've never regretted this decision....neither have I, for that matter...

Canada was their final destination in North America, not the United States, but as far as I am concerned, the two cultures aren't that dissimilar when it comes to what matters, which is freedom, opportunity and optimism.

I never appreciated my North American upbringing and formation properly until I moved to the U.K...I've learned just what it means to be a North American...

Besides, which other nation in the world could conceive of such wonderful television programmes as 'The Simpsons,' 'South Park,' and Jackass'?????????????

:-D

Did you know that many of the greatest American TV shows were based on British TV shows?

Zar · 06-01-2003, 01:46 PM

What is American culture?

The impossible essentialism and dictionary-bound mode of thinking inherent in this question makes it not only unanswerable but -- with all due respect -- quite tiresome. I know why the question is being asked, but that doesn't make it any less problematic.

It is probably precisely the nebulous and blob-like nature of words like this that allow people like Savage to use them to such effect. Everyone thinks they know what referent to fill "culture" with and yet they're mostly just daydreaming.

Luiseach · 06-01-2003, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Did you know that many of the greatest American TV shows were based on British TV shows?

I didn't, actually, although I know there's one American crime drama that is based on that super 'Cracker' series we had over here.

The British version of 'Cracker' is much better than the American...grittier, harsher, less idealised, and definitely funnier. Has a lot to do with the main character - 'Fitz' - who is wonderful in it.

Jat · 06-01-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luiseach
I didn't, actually, although I know there's one American crime drama that is based on that super 'Cracker' series we had over here.

The British version of 'Cracker' is much better than the American...grittier, harsher, less idealised, and definitely funnier. Has a lot to do with the main character - 'Fitz' - who is wonderful in it.

Shows like 'All In The Family', and 'Threes Company' are based on British shows.

Luiseach · 06-01-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
'All In The Family',

...I'd forgotten that! Thanks!

Vorkosigan · 06-01-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Volunteerism has never been higher in the US, far more people have volunteered, marched in political protests, worked on community affairs, and other civic activities than ever before in US history. All over the US sports and community activities are run by vollunteers, such as yours truly, volunteer soccer coach, assistant teacher, and other things besides. This does not count voluntary behavior in hobbies, professional associations, community organizations, and so on. Such behavior is the norm in my country. It is not the exception.

What, only Americans volunteer in the Western world? This is only one small thing of what we were speaking of anyways.

NOWHERE in this comment does it compare the US to any western nation. See what I mean about ideology? It's written all over your comments.

Quote:

It seems that your ideology does not begin to encompass the complexity of the US.

I don't have an ideology (You've been listening to too many reich-wing radio talk shows) and the USA isn't all that complex.

Like I said, most people are clueless about the nature of our complex culture.

Also, I live in Taiwan, and I don't listen to talk shows.

Quote:

Indeed, one of our little crosses to bear is that everyone thinks the US is simpler than it is, that it is easy to understand, and all believe they understand it. They do not.

There's that martyr complex. Yes, the USA is all too easy to understand. [/B]

LOL. Considering how badly you've misunderstood it here, I wouldn't go on about that....

Vorkosigan

elwoodblues · 06-01-2003, 08:07 PM

In a word? Plurality. Sometimes plurality through ignorance. Sometimes plurality through happenstance or necessity. But plurality, nonetheless.

My fiance grew up Catholic, surrounded by Protestants. She didn't even know that could be viewed as a significant issue until later in life; neither did her neighbors. When she did find out, it was a weird curiosity, nothing more.

I grew up with two black uncles in an otherwise white family. People blink when looking at our family album, not in disapproval, but in curiosity.

My parents are Catholic and Lutheran. Aunts and uncles ranging from Unitarian to Liberal Catholic. My brother is vaguely Christian. I'm a strong atheist. My fiance is vaguely pagan. Her parent's familys are respectively very Catholic and very miscellaneous. It doesn't even come up much.

I can count die-hard Democrats, lukewarm Republicans, teeth-gnashing Greens, and vague Libertarians among my family and friends, along with weak anarchists and several 'no category'. Comes up pretty often, but more for entertainment value and conversation than for heated, drag-out knock-down debate.

I can at least say, with confidence, that my own experience with the American culture has been one prizing diversity and plurality above all else. And that's been mostly in Indiana, considered a backwater.

Don't get me wrong. There are segments of this country devoted to insular, conservative ideology. But it's an outspoken minority, nothing more. Rush is entertainment, Farrakhan is a jackass, and church is mostly just a place to keep in touch with the neighbors.

RED DAVE · 06-01-2003, 08:14 PM

From elwoodblues:

Quote:

Don't get me wrong. There are segments of this country devoted to insular, conservative ideology. But it's an outspoken minority, nothing more. Rush is entertainment, Farrakhan is a jackass, and church is mostly just a place to keep in touch with the neighbors.

Wish I could agree with you here. Your view of America through the lens of your family is an extremely attractive one. My experience is that the various fundy elements of various cults (Xtain, Jewish, Muslim, Republican (couldn't resist that one)), are not part of one big, happy family: they're bitter, violent, and they control the present administration.

RED DAVE

elwoodblues · 06-01-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Wish I could agree with you here. Your view of America through the lens of your family is an extremely attractive one.

You know, since my life has been spent entirely in Indiana, I thought it might be slanted. Towards the negative, in the area of inclusiveness and plurality. Maybe that hasn't been the case, but it sure seems odd if that's so.

Quote:

they're bitter, violent, and they control the present administration

I was trying to look at things with a wider perspective than 'the current political administration in charge of the executive office'. That's something of a pendulum.

RED DAVE · 06-01-2003, 09:11 PM

I dunno, elwood. It seems as if you and I are talking together like decent human beings. I don't know if that's really permitted these days.

Seriously, I feel as if this country was more "united" years ago. By that I mean that people had more of a sense of being part of the country, part of a whole. (Strange shit from a socialist. Must be the weather.) I just hope that the pendulum swings back.

RED DAVE

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06-01-2003, 01:46 PM	#22
Zar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 3,477	What is American culture? The impossible essentialism and dictionary-bound mode of thinking inherent in this question makes it not only unanswerable but -- with all due respect -- quite tiresome. I know why the question is being asked, but that doesn't make it any less problematic. It is probably precisely the nebulous and blob-like nature of words like this that allow people like Savage to use them to such effect. Everyone thinks they know what referent to fill "culture" with and yet they're mostly just daydreaming.

06-01-2003, 08:07 PM	#27
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	In a word? Plurality. Sometimes plurality through ignorance. Sometimes plurality through happenstance or necessity. But plurality, nonetheless. My fiance grew up Catholic, surrounded by Protestants. She didn't even know that could be viewed as a significant issue until later in life; neither did her neighbors. When she did find out, it was a weird curiosity, nothing more. I grew up with two black uncles in an otherwise white family. People blink when looking at our family album, not in disapproval, but in curiosity. My parents are Catholic and Lutheran. Aunts and uncles ranging from Unitarian to Liberal Catholic. My brother is vaguely Christian. I'm a strong atheist. My fiance is vaguely pagan. Her parent's familys are respectively very Catholic and very miscellaneous. It doesn't even come up much. I can count die-hard Democrats, lukewarm Republicans, teeth-gnashing Greens, and vague Libertarians among my family and friends, along with weak anarchists and several 'no category'. Comes up pretty often, but more for entertainment value and conversation than for heated, drag-out knock-down debate. I can at least say, with confidence, that my own experience with the American culture has been one prizing diversity and plurality above all else. And that's been mostly in Indiana, considered a backwater. Don't get me wrong. There are segments of this country devoted to insular, conservative ideology. But it's an outspoken minority, nothing more. Rush is entertainment, Farrakhan is a jackass, and church is mostly just a place to keep in touch with the neighbors.

06-01-2003, 09:11 PM	#30
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	I dunno, elwood. It seems as if you and I are talking together like decent human beings. I don't know if that's really permitted these days. Seriously, I feel as if this country was more "united" years ago. By that I mean that people had more of a sense of being part of the country, part of a whole. (Strange shit from a socialist. Must be the weather.) I just hope that the pendulum swings back. RED DAVE

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