pariah

As we have established, determining whether music is art or not is highly subjective, but there are some general rules that we can apply to judge music in terms of artistic merit...

I imagine that the same applies when one determines whether music is 'good' or not; although it is highly subjective, its quite likely that our opinions are all based around a similiar set of criteria we lay out.

For most of us, this is probably just what we like to hear. But there seem to be quite a few music snobs here, as well as musicians, (feel free to add no matter what though!) and so to them I ask: what do you think constitutes good music? If we judge music as art, and therefore soley on its artistic merit, how is that done? What does innovation, ability to execute, etc. mean in music (points discussed in my last thread)?

nerv111

Simply put 'good' music can be considered music that you enjoy. I have personally observed that when people recommend music to me, or I listen to other people's favourite pieces of music I tend to find something in them that I too find enjoyable. This perhaps could be taken as an indication that there may exist some objective qualities about music which cause it to be pleasant.

lhiuvme

Any music that is popular is good for someone...

That said, for me, the best songs are the ones that (in general):

1) Make you think about it after the song is finished...in a good way

2) Give you chills when you hear it

3) Make you tear up

4) Define a period of your life


lhiuvme

Graeme

Great response. I agree completely...

While I judge a lot of music on the amount and quality of technical skill shown by the artist, whether or not it's 'good' or not is entirely subjective... but I think your points are very valid and a great measuring stick for ALL music, be it technically impressive or not.

August Spies

It is hard to say. Music is something that really reaches for the gut instead of the brain. Or at least, my favorite type of music is the kind that sends odd sensations down my spine and makes my face muscles contract in wierd ways while i'm listening.

DarkBronzePlant

Goddammit, pariahSS, will you quit with these argument-inducing music threads?!!!

Anyhow, as for my $0.02 ($0.03 Canadian):

- Like ihiuvme alludes to, I think good music can evoke an emotion. For me, it doesn't have to be "the chills", or make me tear up, but whatever the emotion the artist is striving for. Note that I don't really count "humor" or whatever as an emotion here... that's usually a function solely of the lyrics, not of the combination of lyrics and music.
- This'll open up a can of worms, I'm sure... but another aspect is how much skill/experience do the musicians exhibit?

First, the technical (playing) Does it sound like only someone who has been playing the instrument for a long time would be able to do what the musician is doing? Has the musician come up with different ways of playing the instrument even? (one of the reasons I like Steve Vai and Eric Johnson as guitarists, and why I like some "20th Century" music; there was )

Then, the songwriting ability. Does it sound like the person has the faintest knowlede of music theory? Do they know how notes work together or are they just throwing crap together to see what works? To me, that's sort of a bare minimum for the musician to be a good songwriter/composer. Beyond that, can they then push the envelope and move beyond basic theory? (anticipating questions in future posts, there isn't a way to definitely do this, short of knowing the musicians personally, but sometimes it seems pretty clear)

- All the things relating to the "music as art..." thread, especially the originality aspect. If someone is rehashing the same old "Johnny B. Goode" guitar lick, or playing a I-IV-V-IV riff over and over, I just can't call that good music.

- The music should make sense. Or sound like it has a purpose. Songs or pieces should progress from one point to another. They should sound like they've made a definitive statement. That sort of ties in with my first point, but is a little different.

Bottom line is that music is supposed to sound good, and be enjoyable to listen to. If it achieves that for one person, then to that one person it is good music. That's wholly subjective. But for me, to really enjoy the music and to want to hear it over and over again, the points above are pretty much what I look for. Off the top of my head.

Ojuice5001

Good music is music that has an instrumental (or better yet, electronic) pattern that systematically rises and falls in an attractive manner, and also is complex enough to develop in several directions during the song. The vocals should have one or more "hooks"--parts that grab your attention and stick in your head. The lyrics have little importance; good lyrics can improve a song, but bad ones can't make it worse. Fast songs satisfy these qualities easier than slow ones (especially within the pop and rap genres; rock is a little different), but slow songs can be good as long as they are sung forcefully.

These aesthetic qualities are the true merit of pop music, which certain people don't understand. Many rock and rap songs have them, and a fair number of R&B, but few other genres do. Country music and the majority of R&B have all of the shortcomings and none of the merits of pop.

Graeme

Things change a lot, however, when you're talking about music without lyrics. Instrumental music IMO has enjoyed some of the most radical and rapid advancement than any other over the past 2(.3) decades.

Now you can have amazing compositions that are simply mind-blowingly technical without any sound ever finding a microphone.

Paradox Productions comes to mind... or Leon Mar, or even someone more 'poppy' like Aphex Twin. All incredible musicians, none with any 'traditional' music skills beyond basic keyboard.

pariah

this is my last one darkbronzeplanet, i swear!!

thanks for the interesting responses

Cynical-Chick

~Lyrics, lyrics, and meaning.
~Make your vocals & background music coordinated; Rammstein succeed brilliantly at this. Moby does not.
~Good voice. Titney Spears sounds like a cow having multiple orgasms (Thanks to my friend Leon for that one!)
~Mentally stimulating, like The Four Seasons.