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Old 05-08-2003, 05:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: Re: Re: About two "words"

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Originally posted by beastmaster
Actually, I would say that 'til and 'round are wrong (although not stupid). There is no need to use an apostrophe to account for any missing "un-" at the beginning of "till" or any missing "a-" at the beginning of "round" because "till" and "round" are ancient words that are distinct from "until" and "around."
You're right. But it's still not wrong. The initial apostrophe indicates an elision, which means that 'til and 'round are shortened versions of until and around. I'll agree that it's a weird folk construction probably based on a misunderstanding of the words' origins, but I object on principle to the idea of any normal construction being wrong.

As long as your meaning is clear, it's not actually wrong. It might be ineffective or give a poor impression or something, but it's not wrong. As far as spelling, it's nothing more than a general consensus. I'd argue that those spellings are common enough that they're right.
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Old 05-08-2003, 05:39 AM   #12
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Default Re: About two "words"

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Originally posted by Totalitarianist
Changing "I walked round the corner" to "I walked 'round the corner" is an unnecessary change. Few people would write 'round. Most would simply write round.
I was going to get on your case for using British English until I remembered you're from Canada. An American would say "I walked around the corner." I wonder if the new practice of adding an apostrophe to "round" is because British (and Canadian etc.) English speakers are familiar with the American "around" and think "round" is a shortened form.
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Old 05-08-2003, 10:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: About two "words"

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Originally posted by lisarea
You're right. But it's still not wrong. The initial apostrophe indicates an elision, which means that 'til and 'round are shortened versions of until and around. I'll agree that it's a weird folk construction probably based on a misunderstanding of the words' origins, but I object on principle to the idea of any normal construction being wrong.

As long as your meaning is clear, it's not actually wrong. It might be ineffective or give a poor impression or something, but it's not wrong. As far as spelling, it's nothing more than a general consensus. I'd argue that those spellings are common enough that they're right.
When I said that using the apostrophes is "wrong," I simply meant that, in my own formal writing, I will not use an apostrophe with those two words.

I agree that clarity is paramount and that normal construction is de facto correct. I would never criticize anyone on the internet for using an apostrophe in front of "til" or "round" because the meaning is clear and the usage is common.
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Old 05-08-2003, 01:53 PM   #14
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The word "till" has several different meanings, including 'to cultivate land,' 'money drawer,' and a couple others. And of course round can mean up to 13 different things. 'til and 'round are ways to convey a sense of speech in writing without causing possibly confusing and conflicting meanings.

At least, that's my opinion.
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Old 05-08-2003, 03:13 PM   #15
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(like the perennial 'net favorite of 's to represent plurals).
This is my personal bugaboo, and it is not just seen on the internet either.
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Old 05-08-2003, 03:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josie M
The word "till" has several different meanings, including 'to cultivate land,' 'money drawer,' and a couple others. And of course round can mean up to 13 different things. 'til and 'round are ways to convey a sense of speech in writing without causing possibly confusing and conflicting meanings.

At least, that's my opinion.
however, there is no need to say 'til. The word till is older than the word until; therefore till is not a shortened word of it, and therefore there is no reason to use 'til as if it were a shortened form of the word until. You must realise that 'til is used by the uninformed as a shortened form of the word until.

There is no confusion involved in simply saying round as in, "He had a ring round his thumb"; for round predates around just as right predates aright, and therefore it cannot be a shortened form thereof; hence the apostrophe is superfluous.
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