Doctor X

--J.D.

sophie

Docter X,

Who helps you? Don't tell me you have read from GOD's dictionaries that humans have helped compile.

Nice quote - Your miracles work wonders. (religious babble).

Sue Sponte

Yes, it is usually helpful to actually make the point.

It doesn't suggest anything other than you wanting to avoid the issue.

If I come up with some idea what this could possibly be talking about in relation to the thread topic, I'll respond later.

Division By Zero

You're not paying attention. This thread uses the definition of the Christian god who sends people to hell as punishment for sin. If you want to be more specific, we can define it more precisely as punishment for unrepented sin ("unrepented" meaning "unsaved," of course).

Quote:

Division By Zero : Humans commit sins because God's universe was made in such a way that humans would commit sin. If, as he claims, God does not want people to sin, then sin is a result of poor design. This is a very bad argument. Some crucial steps are missing. Firstly because the apple is there it does not mean you have to eat it.

If God made the universe, and God knows the future, he made the universe knowing that the apple would be eaten even though he supposedly didn't want it to be. If God doesn't know the future (a different possible definition of omniscience, though I believe the Bible has God seeing the future here and there), the fact remains that he failed to create a universe where his apple, intended never to be eaten, was in fact uneaten. If what God wants is humans who don't sin, or even humans who choose not to sin, he didn't do a very good job- and requiring the whole Jesus mess as the only way to fix things is rather nonsensical.

Quote:

You seem to prefer dial a perfect experience. This relationship with GOD does not exist on this Earth. In Heaven perhaps...

I have no idea what you're trying to say, or what you think I said. My original post said the sacrifice and resurrection made no logical sense - and it doesn't.


Sorry for this pointless hijack, Sue. I'll cut it out now.

Doctor X

εγω ειμι

--J.D.

[Edited to redact to the Textus Recepticus.--Ed.]

sophie

Division By Zero : the fact remains that he failed to create a universe where his apple, intended never to be eaten, was in fact uneaten. If what God wants is humans who don't sin, or even humans who choose not to sin, he didn't do a very good job- and requiring the whole Jesus mess as the only way to fix things is rather nonsensical.

OK if this were true, then if we can only cook by fire, then this omniGOD would be at fault again, for failure to find a way to cook without some idiot kid being burnt, seeing the omniGOD would have seen the future of kidO being burned on the middle finger.

Think of the apple as a methphor for a red hot burner you are using to fry breaded mushrooms.

You might as well sit at home put your feet up and dial-an-experience.

JerryM

I'm not a Christian, so I probably shouldn't be commenting on what evangelical Christians believe. But from what I understand. the biblical literalists think that any such early humans died out during Noah's flood. Before the flood, God judged individuals based on their righteousness, but apparently, everyone was wicked except for Noah and his family. So any early humans, like Neanderthals or Cro-Magnons, presumably were drowned. I've even heard them say that there may have been pre-human hominids like Lucy on the Ark, but they became extinct soon after the flood. Of course, it's all contrived nonsense, but that's the gist of what they believe.

Division By Zero

Of course he's "at fault," because the universe in which this happens was his creation, and he is omnipotent and omniscient.

I don't see the purpose of this analogy. If God explicitly desired that people do not get burned while cooking, then this is a design flaw or oversight on his part. If he doesn't care, then the kid getting burned is irrelevant, and the analogy doesn't work anyway.

Furthermore, if God saw that this kid getting burned was a very, very bad thing, and he wanted to fix it, he could certainly think of a better way than dying and being resurrected, in order that children's finger-burns would all go away if only they would have faith that the resurrection happened.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, or how it shows that the Resurrection makes any logical sense (my original point). I'm not going to hijack this thread any further, though. I'll be glad to continue the discussion elsewhere, but it doesn't seem appropriate to this thread.

mark9950

6 feet under,but they are not in hades just the grave.

You really should look up the divine comedy written by dante Alighieri

http://www.divinecomedy.org/divine_comedy.html

Beside cavemen are proof of evolution long before the God.

sophie

Division By Zero :

If you know anything about physics, you would understand why there is a great importance in the appearance of Jesus after he was murdered.

The important parts of the myth/story is not that his death and re-appearance will save your sins, but the fact that he appeared from without. He was dead to the Earth but then re-appeared.

If we were to examine this re-appearance closely, we will find it is in the same category as messages passed from without in the form of visions. The message passed from without was in the form of Jesus re-appearing, which must have had so profound an effect on John and Paul and the others who denied him on the way to his death, that they walked the Earth with the message themselves.

If you believe the re-appearance of Jesus, then it directly means you can move on after life on Earth. Contingent of course, on if you are a team player.