Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bree · 04-01-2002, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IvanK:


Particularly since in Genesis 1 plants are created before human beings and in Genesis 2 it's the other way around. If I ever see a cogent explanation of that I might be interested in reading further in the Christian Bible.

Did you know that most Christians are ignorant of the fact that there are two creation stories? That's one of the first arguments I use when discussing the validation of the Bible - Christians say "there are no contradictions" and you can open up their little book and show them, right at the beginning.

Of course they say that it's not a contradiction. Satan changed it to confuse the wise. Uh huh.

Rich Brown · 04-01-2002, 08:03 AM

Quote:

The point is that our hip or femur is our strongest part of the body and this resembles our free will as human.

What it "resembles" is a lack of knowledge typical of one trying to perform such semantic contortions. (N.B. Try the spine for "strongest part", although that's not in the verse, is it...)

Rich

04-01-2002, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree:


Did you know that most Christians are ignorant of the fact that there are two creation stories? That's one of the first arguments I use when discussing the validation of the Bible - Christians say "there are no contradictions" and you can open up their little book and show them, right at the beginning.

Of course they say that it's not a contradiction. Satan changed it to confuse the wise. Uh huh.

The two creation stories complement each other because in the first story God created when he spoke. Therefore the "God said" image through which the essence of existence was created.

In Gen.2 Lord God made all that was created in Gen.1. Nothing is created in Gen.2 but all was formed after the image created in Gen.1.

Combined these two accounts spell "essence precedes existence."

04-01-2002, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Brown:


What it "resembles" is a lack of knowledge typical of one trying to perform such semantic contortions. (N.B. Try the spine for "strongest part", although that's not in the verse, is it...)

Rich

You mean like in spineless? Well Joseph certainly was not spineless but with his loin out of joint there was not much else he could girth.

Net Rover · 04-01-2002, 10:10 AM

Quote:

The two creation stories complement each other because in the first story God created when he spoke. Therefore the "God said" image through which the essence of existence was created.

In Gen.2 Lord God made all that was created in Gen.1. Nothing is created in Gen.2 but all was formed after the image created in Gen.1.

Combined these two accounts spell "essence precedes existence."

Huh? Hahahahahahah....
But on second thought, kinda like the verbal equivocation I used to be capable of.

IvanK · 04-01-2002, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
In Gen.2 Lord God made all that was created in Gen.1. Nothing is created in Gen.2 but all was formed after the image created in Gen.1.

Let's go to the video tape:

Quote:

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day. (Gen 1:11-13)

. . . And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. (Gen 1:23)

. . . And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1: 26-27)

. . . These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2: 4-7)

(KJV, emphasis added)

So we see that the Amosaic interpretation -- as far as I can understand, that the created things were created and stored somewhere (in Gen 1) before they were put on Earth (in Gen 2) and that the order in which they were put on Earth wasn't necessarily the same order in which they were created -- won't wash (pun intended). In Genesis 1, the Earth "brings forth" plants on the third day, while man (and woman BTW) are created on the sixth. In Genesis 2, man (alone) is created before there are any plants "in the Earth."

Close, but no cigar. Try again. How can the Earth "bring forth" plants that are not then "in the Earth?" Or, how can the sixth day of Creation come before the third?

[ April 01, 2002: Message edited by: IvanK ]

nixon · 04-01-2002, 04:15 PM

Or the more important biological fact that man don't live real long on this world without the plants. And the plants have a similar problem without animals.

04-01-2002, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IvanK:


So we see that the Amosaic interpretation -- as far as I can understand, that the created things were created and stored somewhere (in Gen 1) before they were put on Earth (in Gen 2) and that the order in which they were put on Earth wasn't necessarily the same order in which they were created -- won't wash (pun intended). In Genesis 1, the Earth "brings forth" plants on the third day, while man (and woman BTW) are created on the sixth. In Genesis 2, man (alone) is created before there are any plants "in the Earth."

Close, but no cigar. Try again. How can the Earth "bring forth" plants that are not then "in the Earth?" Or, how can the sixth day of Creation come before the third?

[ April 01, 2002: Message edited by: IvanK ]

In Gen.1 the essence was created and the means to keep its own existence.

Gen.2:5 clearly states: "while as yet there wa sno field shrub or grass in the field . . . ."

You should be carefull to distinguish between the word "created" and "formed" because they are not the same. If your bible does not make this distinction properly you should considder burning it.

trientalis · 04-01-2002, 10:08 PM

I always thought the story of the Levite's concubine had a certain ghoulish appeal. Kind of misogynist but what else is new?

Mike Rosoft · 04-02-2002, 03:44 AM

This one wasn't mentioned yet:

Mark 9:25-26
"Jesus ... rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, 'You dumb and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him, and never enter him again.' And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out."

If the spirit was deaf and dumb, how could it hear Jesus? (And why Jesus talked to it anyway?) How could it cry out?

Then Jesus says (v. 29): "This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer." How can this be true, if he didn't use prayer (or fasting, which some manuscripts add) to exorcise the spirit?

Mike Rosoft

[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Rosoft ]

04-02-2002, 03:44 AM	#60
Mike Rosoft Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 965	This one wasn't mentioned yet: Mark 9:25-26 "Jesus ... rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, 'You dumb and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him, and never enter him again.' And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out." If the spirit was deaf and dumb, how could it hear Jesus? (And why Jesus talked to it anyway?) How could it cry out? Then Jesus says (v. 29): "This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer." How can this be true, if he didn't use prayer (or fasting, which some manuscripts add) to exorcise the spirit? Mike Rosoft [ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Rosoft ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-01-2002, 04:15 PM	#57
nixon Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Valleyview, OH USA Posts: 6,638	Or the more important biological fact that man don't live real long on this world without the plants. And the plants have a similar problem without animals.

04-01-2002, 10:08 PM	#59
trientalis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Washington state Posts: 848	I always thought the story of the Levite's concubine had a certain ghoulish appeal. Kind of misogynist but what else is new?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.