RufusAtticus

False ones.

KnightWhoSaysNi

GeoTheo,

As far as I know, Denis adheres to a Reformed/Presbyterian denomination (please correct me if I'm wrong Denis ). But I don't think that really matters, since many ardent creationists adhere to the same denomination as he does!

I think beliefs on creation and evolution are more considered a personal thing among many Christians, rather than a salvation issue. Rather than seek out a denomination that accepts "evolutionary creation" seek out a church or pastor who believes that creation vs. evolution views are not contingent in Christian salvation. The pastor himself may be a creationist, but he doesn't hold that one need to be a creationist to be a Christian and that evolution acceptance is a non-issue in matters of Christian salvation.

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]</p>

GeoTheo

Well I am asking this not because I want to abandon my church but because I may be getting kicked out. I am not intolerant of YEC's they are intlerant of evolutionists. I never even brought it up in church. Some one told the Pastor what I believe and now the deacons are voting on whether to remove me.

ps418

Would you be comfortable belonging to an organization run by such puny-minded, thought-policing imbeciles? Sounds like you've outgrown them. Find a more open church, I say.

Skydancer

That IS what he asked about. ELCA (the main Lutheran branch - avoid the Missouri and Wisconsin Synod types), Episcopalian, Roman Catholic are all churches which accept science. Unitarians will accept anyone at all - they would have no problem with anyone who is personally nonjudgemental to others about beliefs. Avoid any group that sticks the phrase 'bible-believing' in its precis, that's usually code for fundamentalism.

scigirl

That's just nuts! Heh, you should try the lutheran church, IIRC, they are ok with evo (I call them 'catholic-lite'!)

scigirl

Denis Lamoureux

Hi,
First, just a comment with regard to the term 'evolutionary creation.' It's out there, but not often heard. As most of you guys know, the common term is 'theistic evolution.' But I find that unacceptable because the substantive is a scientific theory and God is just a qualifier.

Denominations with schools/seminaries in REAL universities with REAL science programs have no trouble with EC or TE. Eg, Catholics, Anglicans, etc.

Here's the bottom-line (and sorry if this offends my brothers & sisters in Christ): evangelical Christianity shot itself in the foot by walking out of the major universities in the early 20th century to create Bible schools. before that, evangelicalism was front an center in universities (eg Princeton). Instead of having the balls to 'fight the good fight' (1 Tim 6:12), evangelicals went off to build little indoctrination centers to memorize Bible verses & stop thinking. And of course, after some time this intellectual incest bore the sour fruit of what we now know as 'fundamentalism.'

The shame of all this is that evangelicals are always chirpping about God's Two Books--Book of God's Word and Book of God's Work--and the Bible school movement as effectively closed the latter. Bluntly, North American evangelicalism as a whole is intellectual incompetent. It disqualifies itself from the academy because simply hasn't done its homework.

And if anyone thinks I'm nuts, go read Mark A. Noll's (professor of intellectual history at WHEATON COLLEGE--a very evangelical school) book
_The Scandall of the Evangelical Mind_. First sentence goes something like this: "The scandal of the evangelical mind is that there is not much of an evangelical mind."

Now, before the evangelicals reading this loose their mind, remember: I am an evangelical. I love evangelicalism's focus on living holy lives, reading Scripture and sharing Jesus with everyone. But, and here's the 'but', we've got to clean up our academic act. We're about two centuries behind everyone on soooooo many scientific issues.

Bluntly, (and yea, many too bluntly) all this anti-evolutionism coming out of evangelicalism is blasphemy to the Lord God who graciously gave us a mind to know Him and His world. You anti-evolutionists out there are STUMBLING BLOCKS(in the fullest Pauline sense; 2 Cor 6:2-3) to my scientific colleagues. You put a stumbling block between them and Jesus!!!You are STUMBLING BLOCKS to children who are indoctrinated in anti-evolutionism and then see the evidence for evolution at a REAL university . . . and then they leave the faith because of your incompetence. Sorry for the passion, but I've this shit* too many times at my university.

OK, I think I've said enough.

Over to you guys,
Denis
*And if this word offends any evangelical, plse learn to read God's Word in the original language and you'll see that _skubala_ is not 'rubbish' as evangelical Bibles translate in Phil 3:8.

Denis Lamoureux

It's going to happen. Church got over Galileo, it's going to get over Darwin. When? Probably not in my lifetime, but I hope I'm wrong.

You bet, e-mail me: dlamoure@ualberta.ca.

Denis

Denis Lamoureux

Catholic-lite! That's brilliant! That's going into to my lecture on Tues AM.
Thanks,
Denis

KnightWhoSaysNi

Rufus, you just gotta forward this to the ChristianForums too. (though they might edit the *shit* part )

Vanderzyden, any comment?

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]</p>