Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Belle · 10-16-2002, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perchance:


AGGGGH.

It was a depressing day.

-Perchance.

I am SO SORRY you had to encounter this ignorant individual. It seems they creep out and wack you over the head with their stupidity when you least expect it. It really must have been very discouraging to listen to. I hope you know that the people you are trying to teach are listening even if it doesn't appear that they are. Keep teaching what you know is right and let the pond scum choke itself out.

GeoTheo · 10-16-2002, 11:41 AM

I think people like the name "intelligent design"
It's catchy and relates to teleology.
That's why people like it. People don't like hearing that the universe has no purpose or meaning. That there is intelligent design to the universe appeals to people intuitively.
I think the solution is for theistic evolution to become more popular and understood and have it be presented that the theistic part is metaphysical and that due to seperation of church and state and the fact that the scientific method is meant to be value free, only the scientific facts should be presented in public school.
Too many people associate evolution with atheism, and that is why is continues to be rejected.

Neruda · 10-16-2002, 11:49 AM

you're absolutely right geotheo. that much is clearly obvious when you see those damn bumper stickers with a darwin fish being eaten by a jesus fish. How can people be so stupid as to see it in that way? if I believed in God I would still believe in evolution. my grandfather was a devout christian as well as an evolutionist. he described evolution as "a god-decreed form of continuous creation" or something to that effect. If only more christians were as smart or as educated as him.

RufusAtticus · 10-16-2002, 12:14 PM

The problem in my area is that many people get lied to in church or by the "Christian" organizations they like to listen to. These lies are two fold.

1. That evolution and Christianity don't mix.
2. That evolution and science don't mix.

Krieger · 10-16-2002, 03:39 PM

I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but ID = Ignorant Delusions.

Jimmy Higgins · 10-16-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda:
that much is clearly obvious when you see those damn bumper stickers with a darwin fish being eaten by a jesus fish. How can people be so stupid as to see it in that way?

Point 1) Well, that is why I let people know that Darwin loves them with my bumper sticker.

Point 2) A borderline agnostic at work actually noticed something about that Darwin fish being eaten by the "Truth" fish. In reality, the sticker is promoting Evolution indirectly. The survival of the fittest. The bigger fish eats the smaller fish. The stronger fish eats the weaker fish. Its Darwin's survival of the fittest, and they aren't smart enough to notice. But as I tell people who comment on my sticker, "It doesn't matter what you do or say, Darwin will always love you." It just gives me goosebumps.

Quote:

If only more christians were as smart or as educated as him.

They are, but they live exclusively in the northeast.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Jimmy Higgins ]

Jimmy Higgins · 10-16-2002, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
I think people like the name "intelligent design"
It's catchy and relates to teleology.
That's why people like it. People don't like hearing that the universe has no purpose or meaning.

I disagree a little. I think the reason why ID is growing in popularity is mainly because of its simplicity, consequently one of the reasons why it is pure BS. The majority of people aren't too smart. They can drive cars, lose sleep overnight because of a bad football game, read the sports section exclusively, think using Netscape or Internet Explorer constitutes computer literacy, and think auto knowledge constitutes supreme domancy over all others. I remember arguing state rights with someone who, when I mentioned the Articles of Confederation, didn't know what I was talking about.

People in general are ignorant and vain. So they want to look smart. However, they ain't nevah going to understand the concepts required for evolution. ID makes knowing the origins of the universe simple, without that pesky 10 dimensions of string cheese theory. It reminds me of an infomercial.

Quote:

Wells: That's right! You can pretend that you know everything about the universe and still have religion with ID.
*crowd* Ohhhhhhhh.
Host: But I thought the universe was so difficult to understand. I mean scientists keep on with these difficult things.
*crowd nods in agreement*
Wells: But not ID. Its so simple! You don't need any knowledge of biology, astronomy, physics, or even mathmatics. What do scientists know? They still think evolution is true when its been shown over and over again at being false. Degrees don't mean anything. I don't need to tell you what BS MS and PhD stand for.
Host (laughing) : Not on this program.
*crowd laughs*
Host: But seriously, how does it work? What makes it so simple.
Wells: All you need is this Dembeski Filter (patent pending). You just put whatever you want into it, and then the digital screen tells you if the object was intelligent designed.
Host: It can't be that easy.
Wells (picking up a watch): We all know that watches are made by man.
Host: Though not all of them by intelligent people. *laughs*
*crowd laughs*
Wells: Well, we'll see if this one is. *pops the watch into the filter, destroying it. ID'd pops up on the screen* Ta da!
Host: Wow! That's amazing!
*crowd cheers*
Host: But you also said that evolution doesn't exist.
Wells (picking up cute kitten and tosses it into the filter, shredding the kitten apart. ID'd pops up on the screen): Now lets see Darwin contest that. *laughs*
*crowd laughs*
Host: Now this must have to cost...

ID gives people a way out. The same reason why they believe in a god that only requires belief in Christ to go to heaven. No works or anything. ID requires only your ignorance, pride, and desire to pretend that your intelligent. Why do you think Dateline is such a popular show? It makes people think they can stand watching the news.

Perchance · 10-17-2002, 06:23 AM

Coragyps: It's very scary. Sometimes I wonder what is scarier: the idea that they don't know what these words mean- and they've seen eighteen or nineteen years on the planet- or that, when encountering a word they don't know in an article, they MAKE NO EFFORT to find out what it means. I suppose "dictionaries" are outdated.

Albion: I don't think he had a serious point, either. What makes this even more hysterical (and sad) is that English has got to be one of the most subjective fields of study in the university. There are people in it who still take Freud seriously, for humanity's sake. English can't prove anything, either. And he's asking science to set its results in stone?

Belle: Thank you for the encouragement. I do hope to help these freshmen understand, and I know that they might do so far away from now and out of my sight. It's just hard to keep reminding myself of that sometimes.

GeoTheo: I agree that the name "Intelligent Design" is catchy. However, I also think that it's just another way of humoring people's reluctance to think of themselves as animals on a tiny little planet in a vast universe- not special, not the center of the universe. And ultimately, if it convinces them that they're still unique and they need never think otherwise, it's doing the same damage as outright creationism.

But then, I've been told in the past that I'm one of those evil people who cares more about other people's minds than their souls

.

-Perchance.

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10-16-2002, 11:41 AM	#12
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	I think people like the name "intelligent design" It's catchy and relates to teleology. That's why people like it. People don't like hearing that the universe has no purpose or meaning. That there is intelligent design to the universe appeals to people intuitively. I think the solution is for theistic evolution to become more popular and understood and have it be presented that the theistic part is metaphysical and that due to seperation of church and state and the fact that the scientific method is meant to be value free, only the scientific facts should be presented in public school. Too many people associate evolution with atheism, and that is why is continues to be rejected.

10-16-2002, 11:49 AM	#13
Neruda Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 80	you're absolutely right geotheo. that much is clearly obvious when you see those damn bumper stickers with a darwin fish being eaten by a jesus fish. How can people be so stupid as to see it in that way? if I believed in God I would still believe in evolution. my grandfather was a devout christian as well as an evolutionist. he described evolution as "a god-decreed form of continuous creation" or something to that effect. If only more christians were as smart or as educated as him.

10-16-2002, 12:14 PM	#14
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	The problem in my area is that many people get lied to in church or by the "Christian" organizations they like to listen to. These lies are two fold. 1. That evolution and Christianity don't mix. 2. That evolution and science don't mix.

10-16-2002, 03:39 PM	#15
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but ID = Ignorant Delusions.

10-17-2002, 06:23 AM	#18
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Coragyps: It's very scary. Sometimes I wonder what is scarier: the idea that they don't know what these words mean- and they've seen eighteen or nineteen years on the planet- or that, when encountering a word they don't know in an article, they MAKE NO EFFORT to find out what it means. I suppose "dictionaries" are outdated. Albion: I don't think he had a serious point, either. What makes this even more hysterical (and sad) is that English has got to be one of the most subjective fields of study in the university. There are people in it who still take Freud seriously, for humanity's sake. English can't prove anything, either. And he's asking science to set its results in stone? Belle: Thank you for the encouragement. I do hope to help these freshmen understand, and I know that they might do so far away from now and out of my sight. It's just hard to keep reminding myself of that sometimes. GeoTheo: I agree that the name "Intelligent Design" is catchy. However, I also think that it's just another way of humoring people's reluctance to think of themselves as animals on a tiny little planet in a vast universe- not special, not the center of the universe. And ultimately, if it convinces them that they're still unique and they need never think otherwise, it's doing the same damage as outright creationism. But then, I've been told in the past that I'm one of those evil people who cares more about other people's minds than their souls . -Perchance.

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