Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Totalitarianist · 05-17-2003, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zamboniavenger
Well, first you have to prove that is not in the best interests of a nation. Couldn't nationalist just as easily mean anti-capitalist.

Fascism is State capitalism.

Rhys · 05-18-2003, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Totalitarianist
Ah, Rhys! I know you from various forums. What brought you here? For I somehow remember you speaking fondly of Jesus Christ.

Hello Vir

I've posted a few things about Jesus but i myself am an atheist. if i have any admiration for Jesus it would be for what he did as a man and not a spirit.

Nikolai · 05-18-2003, 01:56 PM

I look forward to many well though out and interesting debates between Rhys and Totalitarianist

John Hancock · 05-18-2003, 05:01 PM

Rhys

Welcome, Nationalism is beneficial to any country but like whiskey a little goes along way. Irrational amounts clouds perceptions and is often of more detriment than benefit. I'm often labeled un-American (when they mean anti-USA). Merely because I speak the truth. How can a chickenhawk bastard like GWB call a combat vet from tet un-American?

Martin Buber

Ockhamite · 05-19-2003, 06:30 AM

I'm with Jinto....

Nationalist ideals are abhorrent.

It's the antithesis of what I am and what I believe in.... and I offer no sympathy or encouragement to those yearning for the freedom to hate. I lack any desire to preserve or act in my racial or cultural self-interest because there are no important differences worth the grief and suffering of a divisive philosophy of 'love your own...hate others'.

Quote:

i myself am an atheist. if i have any admiration for Jesus it would be for what he did as a man and not a spirit.

Atheists don't usually believe in spirits. Are you sure you want to deny this 'Jesus Spirit'?

John Hancock · 05-19-2003, 07:48 AM

Ockhamite

na�tion�al�ism
(click to hear the word) (nsh-n-lzm, nshn-)
n.
1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.

2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.

3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

One and two are a quart while three a half-pint. I do not believe that a total lack of cohesion is desirable.

Martin

Ockhamite · 05-19-2003, 02:13 PM

Martin....

It takes effort not to see nationalism as a convenient cover to hide schemes for political power and personal greed or as an opportunistic way to prey on people's prejudices and stereotypes. Too often notions of racial, cultural or ethnic 'superiority' or 'purity', or belief that cultural differences are somehow "rooted" in biology, are amplified by nationalism, producing racism, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism and xenophobia, on a destructive scale that is mind-numbing.

No one wants to forgo ethnic and cultural affinity as a source of community, social diversity and vitality. But such cultural freedom and variety should not naively be confused with nationalism. A little cohesion...yes....a bit too much...you get skinheads. You know...those with more hair than brains.

Hubble head · 05-19-2003, 05:11 PM

Nationalism is often easily exploited as an extension of our natural instincts. We were born with little voices in our heads that tell us to protect and support our own group.

We fear those not like us or even worse, becoming like them before we ever know if they have a better answer to life in general or not. Leaders use it not only to make you fear the other group-but the other leaders as well.

Since it is so effective at cutting off rational discovery of others and has been the same force behind various unwarranted prejudices and propaganda I cannot be for it as it is used today.

That being said there is no fault in simply being proud of where you're from or wanting the best for your people. But when your quality of life comes at the expense of others' it has crossed the line from Nationalism to Imperialism.

Ultron · 05-20-2003, 02:20 AM

I'm a nationalist. I think, America First! But I am not an isolationist. I just place my country as a higher priority than any other nation. I could just as easily be an American citizen thinking France First! But I wouldn't be a loyal nationalist. hehe

Corporatists? Never heard of em?

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05-18-2003, 01:56 PM	#13
Nikolai Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 422	I look forward to many well though out and interesting debates between Rhys and Totalitarianist

05-18-2003, 05:01 PM	#14
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	Rhys Welcome, Nationalism is beneficial to any country but like whiskey a little goes along way. Irrational amounts clouds perceptions and is often of more detriment than benefit. I'm often labeled un-American (when they mean anti-USA). Merely because I speak the truth. How can a chickenhawk bastard like GWB call a combat vet from tet un-American? Martin Buber

05-19-2003, 07:48 AM	#16
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	Ockhamite na�tion�al�ism (click to hear the word) (nsh-n-lzm, nshn-) n. 1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation. 2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals. 3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination. One and two are a quart while three a half-pint. I do not believe that a total lack of cohesion is desirable. Martin

05-19-2003, 02:13 PM	#17
Ockhamite Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Appalachia....just past the Wal-Mart Posts: 121	Martin.... It takes effort not to see nationalism as a convenient cover to hide schemes for political power and personal greed or as an opportunistic way to prey on people's prejudices and stereotypes. Too often notions of racial, cultural or ethnic 'superiority' or 'purity', or belief that cultural differences are somehow "rooted" in biology, are amplified by nationalism, producing racism, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism and xenophobia, on a destructive scale that is mind-numbing. No one wants to forgo ethnic and cultural affinity as a source of community, social diversity and vitality. But such cultural freedom and variety should not naively be confused with nationalism. A little cohesion...yes....a bit too much...you get skinheads. You know...those with more hair than brains.

05-19-2003, 05:11 PM	#18
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	Nationalism is often easily exploited as an extension of our natural instincts. We were born with little voices in our heads that tell us to protect and support our own group. We fear those not like us or even worse, becoming like them before we ever know if they have a better answer to life in general or not. Leaders use it not only to make you fear the other group-but the other leaders as well. Since it is so effective at cutting off rational discovery of others and has been the same force behind various unwarranted prejudices and propaganda I cannot be for it as it is used today. That being said there is no fault in simply being proud of where you're from or wanting the best for your people. But when your quality of life comes at the expense of others' it has crossed the line from Nationalism to Imperialism.

05-20-2003, 02:20 AM	#19
Ultron Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: here Posts: 738	I'm a nationalist. I think, America First! But I am not an isolationist. I just place my country as a higher priority than any other nation. I could just as easily be an American citizen thinking France First! But I wouldn't be a loyal nationalist. hehe Corporatists? Never heard of em?

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