Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amie · 04-13-2003, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
Amie
Would you be offended if let�s say a Wiccan said he/she would cast a spell (similar to Catholic prayer), dedicated to a Pagan God or Goddess for your quick recovery, especially since the use of magic is against your religious faith (given she likely knew that you are indeed a Christian?)

Absolutely not. I have Wiccan friends who pray for me to God and Godess, I am cool with that. I know they mean well and it is an act of kindness on their part and I have actually asked Havoc over at CF to pray for me and he's my favorite witch.

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Perhaps you would not be offended at first, but after you have told said acquaintance/friend that spell casting is against the teachings of your faith and you would appreciate it if he/she did not cast a spell or say a prayer to his/her Gods for you AND then he/she continued to either spell cast or pray for you � wouldn�t you feel either a bit offended or even disrespected, even if he/she proclaims good intentions are that are had? Wouldn�t you also potentially think it was silly that he/she was praying to God�s you believe do not exist?

If someone wants to spend their time casting spells hey go for it...
Regarding the prayer though, No I don't think it would be silly since *they* are the ones who are praying and *they* are the ones who believe. Prayer is a kind gesture and I would take it as such.

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Even try to think how you might feel if a well intentioned Muslim commented to you that he/she would pray to Allah that you would find your way to the True God, and accept Mohammed as the True Prophet of God and relinquish your false Prophet, Jesus. A Muslim might feel it is quite apparent that Allah is indeed God (just as the converse is true for the Christian and Jesus), and cannot understand why you would be offended these prayers, or comments. I doubt many Christians would not take some offense, or at least feel irritated by such things.

If they want to pray to Allah then I say Go for it, I need all the prayers I can get...

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Good intentions are simply not enough if one�s actions knowingly, or unwittingly offend another. The later is easily forgiven and understood, but the former is disrespectful.

If someone is going to become offended simply because someone offered prayers then that person just needs to get over it. How someone can make a *non* belief as some sort of focal point in life is beyond me.

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I generally disregard that casual statement as I think many people say it without thinking about it first, but for those who do in fact know I am an atheist I take issue with it if it becomes a problem.

I think most people who say it are sincere, not without thinking about it but yes there may be some where it just comes second nature. Is praying hurting you in any way? I do think if someones religious beliefs cause them to harm others in any way either psychologically or physically then one should abandon those beliefs or at the bare minimum re-evaluate the need for the said belief in ones life.

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I hope that helps you understand a bit better why some take offense to such comments.

Thanks Brighid I think in this situation I would have to actually be a nonbeliever to truly understand. I appreciate you taking the time though.

Let me ask you something though. Hypothetical. Lets say your father was dying and he was a believer and you had some friends say they would pray for him, would you be offended to hear that as well or would the offense be limited to praying for you directly? Even if someone in your family wasn't dying, if a Christian said "I am praying for your <insert any random family member name here>" would you be offended by that as well?

Amie · 04-13-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
I do understand why the phrase "I'll pray for you" might offend - I used to be one of the offendees. Now, however, I think there's simply a greater difference in mutual understanding than I thought previously.

Yes you are definitely one of the more reasonable ones on this board. Philosoft I wish more atheists were like you...

Amie · 04-13-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
Hoping for a comment from Amie or other christians learning for the first time how people can be offended by prayer.

Comments?
Rebuttal?

Just did. I dont spend all my time online. I actually have a life. (not implying you guys don't.)

...and oh boy prayer associated with corruption? You sound like an extremist...

Amie · 04-13-2003, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Suzanne**Atheist
Rhea, I've never looked at it this way. I've considered prayer a waste of time certainly, but I've not considered the bribery and corruption implications. Thanks for a new view. Suzanne

How about you consider what I said too Suzanne since these are your friends and they love you... Bribery and coruption

IT's A LITTLE PRAYER FOR YOUR FOOT SUZANNE!!!!!! There is no corruption involved in this...

Amie · 04-13-2003, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut
When people up there say they were praying for me, I just say "Thank you" and go on.

The voice of reason: Opera Nut.
I too am sorry about your loss.

Amie · 04-13-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
I don't feel it is rude or inappropriate for my response in some situations to be: "Thank you, but I'd really rather you prayed for abused children. I'm okay here." Such as in the situation where they are praying for MY broken ankle or whatever.

Maybe they already *are* praying for abused children. If they want to spend time praying for your ankle or whatever so be it Rhea. Its not hurting you.

Philosoft · 04-13-2003, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amie
Yes you are definitely one of the more reasonable ones on this board. Philosoft I wish more atheists were like you...

Thank you, Amie. But I ask that you not expect every atheist to behave like me. I have had a couple of probably rare non-internet relationships that sort-of put all the religious cards out in the open for criticism. Most people understandably wouldn't put up with the scrutiny that I have given their beliefs. I don't really expect many atheists have had this opportunity. The physical isolation of cyberspace doesn't allow for all the non-visual cues that I've been able to associate with brutal honesty. Moral of the story: Don't take your frustration out on others here who are just as frustrated as you are.

Queen of Swords · 04-13-2003, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Amie
If someone is going to become offended simply because someone offered prayers then that person just needs to get over it.

To me, motivation is more important. I don't mind someone praying for me to do well in an exam as much as I mind someone praying that I convert to their religion.

Why is this offensive? Because it shows very little respect for my right to hold my own views. If someone is going to try to petition their deity-of-choice to change my mind, then that person just needs to get over it.

How someone can make a *non* belief as some sort of focal point in life is beyond me.

Perhaps they make a non-belief some sort of focal point in life the way some people make a belief some sort of focal point in life.

Perhaps non-belief involves an emphasis on tolerance and education, and it's these which are the focal points in life.

Amie · 04-13-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
I don't mind someone praying for me to do well in an exam as much as I mind someone praying that I convert to their religion.

Yes I can see why because I wouldn't mind hearing an "I hope you do well on your exam" from an atheist but a "I hope you deconvert" might rub me the wrong way...

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Perhaps non-belief involves an emphasis on tolerance and education, and it's these which are the focal points in life.

Perhaps however I personally don't see a whole lot of tolerance around here when it comes to people believing in God so I do not think at all non belief has any more emphasis on tolerance than a person holding a God belief. Same goes for education. Ultimately I guess it just depends on the person.

As much as I believe in God I don't really feel I am defined as a person by my belief. I started an interesting thread a while ago in misc discussion called describe yourself in 5 words or something of that nature. IIRC there was only one person (well into the thread) that mentioned "atheist" as one of their descriptions and I certainly didnt think to say "believer" as one of my 5. My God belief is just one aspect. I thought that was interesting on this board as much as religious views are discussed.

Amie · 04-13-2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
Thank you, Amie. But I ask that you not expect every atheist to behave like me.

No I would not "expect" them to.

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04-13-2003, 09:45 PM	#68
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by Amie If someone is going to become offended simply because someone offered prayers then that person just needs to get over it. To me, motivation is more important. I don't mind someone praying for me to do well in an exam as much as I mind someone praying that I convert to their religion. Why is this offensive? Because it shows very little respect for my right to hold my own views. If someone is going to try to petition their deity-of-choice to change my mind, then that person just needs to get over it. *How someone can make a non* belief as some sort of focal point in life is beyond me.** Perhaps they make a non-belief some sort of focal point in life the way some people make a belief some sort of focal point in life. Perhaps non-belief involves an emphasis on tolerance and education, and it's these which are the focal points in life.

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