Wyz_sub10

I just want to support Digital Chicken here a bit. Vegan is a lifestyle choice based on beliefs (and sometimes on physiology). It is more akin to being Christian than being black. It cannot be denied that generalizations re: fundies or any type of Chrisitians are very common here. I don't see why it is offensive to say "all vegans I've met are preachy about their beliefs". I know some who aren't at all, but based on my university days, I would say that most "Big E - environmentalists" (as we used to call them) we very similar to fundies.

I'm not supporting his conclusion, just that I think the comparison to generalizing about blacks is inaccurate. (Most vegans actively advocate becoming vegans. I have never had a black friend try to convince me to become black.)

brighid

Wyz -

I will also address your concerns later. Thank you for your thoughts and constructive criticism. They are appreciated and will certainly be taken into consideration

Brighid

The AntiChris

Am I the only person here who thinks that some of the responses here from meat-eaters smack a little of hysterical over-reaction?

Some of you guys sound really scared.

Chris

Ab_Normal

"They can take my hamburger from me when they pry it from my cold dead hand!"

GPLindsey

Here Here to the parents out there who wrote in about kids eating meat! I have a six year old and a three year old. What is this nonsense that kids reject meat unless pressured by their parents, but they chew on grass, bugs, etc.?!? Until age 2 or 3, children are prone to stick just about anything in their mouths, as they discover what foods are, what is not food, and what tastes good. They also go through phases when they love some food for awhile, and then can't stand it just a few months later. Parents put bits of meat in front of the child when it is fed up with mushy rice cereal and wants to try what is on Mommy and Daddy's plate. My kids weren't pressured to eat meat--when they were ready to eat solid food, they cried for meat, YEARNED for it as they reached out grasping hands from their high chair!

As for Vegan diets not being sufficient for small children, that is solid, established fact. Consider this from the widely respected child-rearing tome, "What to Expect--The Toddler Years."

P.525 -- "Because vegetarian foods generally are more bulky than other foods (to get the same amount of protein found in a few bites of chicken, a toddler would have to eat nearly a cup of rice and beans)your toddler is likely to get fuller faster on them. And since most toddlers have delicate appetites to begin with, allowing those appetites to be SABOTAGED [emphasis added] by nutritionally vacant foods leaves little or no tummy room for the good stuff."

Regarding protein -- "Toddlers who eat dairy products and eggs easily fill their daily requirement for protein. But vegan toddlers, who eat no animal products at all, can easily fall short in this category."

P. 526, Regarding iron -- "Children who don't eat meat, a rich source of iron, often don't get enough of this important mineral."

Regarding calcium -- "On a dairy-free diet, it is difficult (if not impossible) to get adequate calcium from diet alone."

Protein, vitamin B12, iron, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin--the list goes on and on. Vegans claim there is a way children can get all these wonderful things just through a vegan diet, but why should parents put their kids through a bunch of tortured dietary gyrations? Let the kids have meat and dairy products, so they can have a chance at a full life!!

I also agree with many of the comments people have made about their encounters with Vegans. A good friend of mine told me how she had to start parting ways with a couple she was initially friends with, because they were so militantly Vegan. The more she got to know them, the more she realized that they turned practically every conversation into a discussion of veganism. They also displayed the traits that many of have touched upon in this thread--an arrogant attitude of moral/intellectual superiority to all who are not Vegans; a tiresome desire to pull 15 scientific studies out of their back pocket, and start debating with anyone who casually mentions that meat is good for your diet; and a religous zealotry about the whole matter. I don't think about food all day, why do they?

Are all Vegans annoying bores who torment meat eaters? No. Should Americans, the most obese people on the planet, be eating more veggies and cutting way back on those "All You Can Eat" buffets of chicken and ribs? Of course they should. But Veganism is not the way to go.

trientalis

What I don't understand is the vegan couple refusing to breastfeed because they don't want to child to consume any sort of milk. What do they think human breasts and breast milk are for? Is it somehow immoral that a human child should consume his human mother's milk? Sheesh.

I don't question their right to feed their child as they choose. I just don't understand why it could be immoral to breastfeed one's child.

YMMV

Glory

Yeah, that's just stupid.

Glory

ExTheist

As is the case with theists, as long as vegans don't try to tell others how to live their lives then let them have their dietary choice. The vegan fundies however really believe that "meat is murder"( )
The vegans who believe the PETA slogan "a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy" (I would not hire them as babysitters) are way off.

tronvillain

DigitalChicken:
*shrugs* Having a higher degree of empathy makes self-righteous indignation perfectly reasonable.

Primal

I do not think it is fair to say all vegans are like that, I have met some for example that do not condem me for eating meat and they do still feed their dogs meat.

I'm sure some are militant, probably PETA, but not all. Nor is it really veganism you seem to be condeming but being militant, which is bad in any group. As well as promoting unhealthy and cruel practices, which any group can do and is not necessarily connected to veganism.


Lastly, I'm wondering about the possibility of meat/clone factories. What if we could clonse animal meat instead of butchering an animal to get at the meat, would any vegetarians be more open to the idea of meat eating? Would any meat-eaters be ok with the practice or prefer it over animal killing?