Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunachick
A few years ago, NZ lower the legal drinking age from 21 to 18 in bars, and for people to buy liquor.

There will always be underage drinkers. When the age is 21, the underage drinkers are around 18 and up - in the pubs, and buying their own booze, anyway.

Whe the age was lowered, younger ages are getting away with buying alcohol and going to the pub.

The NZ experience of this has been an increase in problem drinking with younger people, more unwanted pregnancies with younger people, more STD's, more road deaths - typically, the drunk driver will kill an innocent or two - and more hospital admissions due to the health effects of young binge drinkers harming their liver, kidneys and brain; and generally poisoning themselves during the course of a night.

It is pretty much proven that the younger people start to drink excessively, the worse off they will be later. As they grow into more adult alcoholics, the effects on their partners, children, etc, is devastating. Many are also unable to service debts, as the piss all their money up the wall.

The cost to the state in all this is millions.

Who benefits? The kids think they do - at least in the early days of the "fun". But in the end, they don't. The only ones to benefit are the bloated liquor companies, and they know where their bread is buttered - get 'em young (hence slick marketing to the young), and you have 'em for life. Money, money, money, money!

As with a great many things, Jake, there is MUCH more to the issue than meets the eye.

And don't get me wrong - I used to go pretty hard out when I was younger, and still do occassionally now. But that's beside the point.

You know I think is funny, though - you think you have a freer mind somehow - a more open mind - than those of us with both experience AND open minds. Ahhh, the arrogance of youth - so narrow in their understanding, many of them - small in their worlds and their minds - yet just can't see it. *chuckle*

Maybe your narrow mind narrows your perception of my broad mind

Jake

Gurdur · 05-26-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson

Heh, I have always hated paragraphs, just ask my english teacher.

*shrug*
Fine, as long as you don't mind if we eventually give up trying to read your posts.

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
Jake;
Look, I don't want you to feel everyone is ganging up on you here..we're not. We have just been there, try to give us the benefit of the doubt that we're not really trying to trash the party. We really aren't. But you WILL be seeing it from our side, in just a few short years.

I know it sucks...but it's just the way it is. A few short years under your belt, and your perspective changes. Things that seemed of great importance, you'll find...lose it later. You don't find the same things as important now as you did when you were 10 do you? What seemed critical to you then, is something laughable now.

Well, that is where wer're at right now. But they aren't laughable any more, they're just embarrassing.

Paragraphs for gurdur.

I find my mind has matured to the point where my ideological values will stay with me for the rest of my life, hopefully.
Jake

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:25 PM

Another quick lesson, then I've got to take a breather...I've been up for about 27 hours now, and I'm just plain tired. Thankfully my shift ends in another hour, and then it's bed for me.

The exercise:
Pick one of your parents. The one you would be most willing to lose. Go ahead and chalk them up to a drunk driver. Imagine the phone call, the rush to the hospital, the doctors delivery of the news... The identification of the body, the funeral arrangements. One day dragging to the next as your family cries around you. Your knowledge that you will never talk to that person again--You will never get talked down too, mistreated...but no hugs, or warm words either. Now imagine the months passing without that person, the other parent suffering, lonely without their best friend. No "congratulations" when you finish college--a missing person at your wedding. Your children not having that grandparent to play with. If you can, imagine the empty spot that person would leave. Give that spot a name, your parent's name.

Now, weigh that against...of all things....a beer. Was it really worth it?

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
Well, the lower the legal drinking age and make public announcements and improve teenagers driving habits to stop kids from DUI. Simple really.
Jake

Don't know if you noticed it or not...but those PSA's don't even get the attention of a blink. It's not simple. How are you going to improve their habits? Maybe we should raise the driving age, or place tougher restrictions on achieving a license? Sounds like a good plan to me. No, then that would be unfair to you kids....what exactly would be a fair way of going about this if you don't mind me asking?

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
I find my mind has matured to the point where my ideological values will stay with me for the rest of my life, hopefully.
Jake

I've thought that every year since I was 14....As most of us have. You really need to print this thread out, and open it up when you turn 22. You are not going to believe it.

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
Another quick lesson, then I've got to take a breather...I've been up for about 27 hours now, and I'm just plain tired. Thankfully my shift ends in another hour, and then it's bed for me.

The exercise:
Pick one of your parents. The one you would be most willing to lose. Go ahead and chalk them up to a drunk driver. Imagine the phone call, the rush to the hospital, the doctors delivery of the news... The identification of the body, the funeral arrangements. One day dragging to the next as your family cries around you. Your knowledge that you will never talk to that person again--You will never get talked down too, mistreated...but no hugs, or warm words either. Now imagine the months passing without that person, the other parent suffering, lonely without their best friend. No "congratulations" when you finish college--a missing person at your wedding. Your children not having that grandparent to play with. If you can, imagine the empty spot that person would leave. Give that spot a name, your parent's name.

Now, weigh that against...of all things....a beer. Was it really worth it?

So you agree it would be best to take away recreational driving then? I mean whats a life worth compared to a silly trip to the park. You remind me of Antony in the play "Julius Caesar", appealing to the crowds emotions. I guess I would play the part of Brutus, appealing to the logical side of nature. You have one thing going for you though, Antony defeated Brutus.

Jake

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
I've thought that every year since I was 14....As most of us have. You really need to print this thread out, and open it up when you turn 22. You are not going to believe it.

You mean when I will be a parapalegic, according to yguy.
Jake

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
So you agree it would be best to take away recreational driving then? I mean whats a life worth compared to a silly trip to the park. You remind me of Antony in the play "Julius Caesar", appealing to the crowds emotions. I guess I would play the part of Brutus, appealing to the logical side of nature. You have one thing going for you though, Antony defeated Brutus.
Jake

It's not emotion I'm appealing to, it's common sense. The rest of the guys? They've already learned the lesson the hard way. You are an initiate to a club that none of us wants to be in. It's kind of a forced admittance thing you see. You'll be a full member soon enough. I get the feeling that I'm not making any headway, and may be having a detrimental effect on...so I'm going to pass you to someone else, perhaps they can succede where I failed. The lesson really is simple, so I must assume I screwed up somewhere in the transmission. Maybe someone else can explain it better than I. I do wish you luck though, you are so much like me at your age it's not even funny.

I would suggest reading plutarch's "lives and essays". Not for this, but I think you would enjoy it. By chance have you read "for whom the bell tolls"? Both were fundamental blocks in my growth, I recently reread them both, and suggested them to a friend.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls:

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
It's not emotion I'm appealing to, it's common sense. The rest of the guys? They've already learned the lesson the hard way. You are an initiate to a club that none of us wants to be in. It's kind of a forced admittance thing you see. You'll be a full member soon enough. I get the feeling that I'm not making any headway, and may be having a detrimental effect on...so I'm going to pass you to someone else, perhaps they can succede where I failed. The lesson really is simple, so I must assume I screwed up somewhere in the transmission. Maybe someone else can explain it better than I. I do wish you luck though, you are so much like me at your age it's not even funny.

I would suggest reading plutarch's "lives and essays". Not for this, but I think you would enjoy it. By chance have you read "for whom the bell tolls"? Both were fundamental blocks in my growth, I recently reread them both, and suggested them to a friend.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls:

I have not read that literature, though I will be sure to look it up. Wasn't plutarch the writer that Shakespeare used for reference material? And you haven't answered my question, why not take away recreational driving. This is a very key point I wish to address.
Jake

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-26-2003, 07:25 PM	#24
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Another quick lesson, then I've got to take a breather...I've been up for about 27 hours now, and I'm just plain tired. Thankfully my shift ends in another hour, and then it's bed for me. The exercise: Pick one of your parents. The one you would be most willing to lose. Go ahead and chalk them up to a drunk driver. Imagine the phone call, the rush to the hospital, the doctors delivery of the news... The identification of the body, the funeral arrangements. One day dragging to the next as your family cries around you. Your knowledge that you will never talk to that person again--You will never get talked down too, mistreated...but no hugs, or warm words either. Now imagine the months passing without that person, the other parent suffering, lonely without their best friend. No "congratulations" when you finish college--a missing person at your wedding. Your children not having that grandparent to play with. If you can, imagine the empty spot that person would leave. Give that spot a name, your parent's name. Now, weigh that against...of all things....a beer. Was it really worth it?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.