Freethought & Rationalism Archive

keyser_soze · 03-20-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by orac
"God gave us intelligence as a test. People who use it fail."

I swear I'm not making it up. There really are people who 'think" that way.

Once you realise that christians actively avoid logical thought in the same way normal people avoid leaping in front of trains, then you'll understand how they can think the things they do.

It's probably because they had just enough intelligence to observe what happens when people spend time thinking, and realised that thought leads to deconversion. Of course they then had to declare intelligence to be a sin, to avoid people thinking about it any more

It's impressive (in a depressing way) how they can believe this, and still calmly accept all the benefits that modern technology and medicine have given us. Thinking about how that's a contradiction probably counts as a sin.

Reminds me of the asimov story where the boy is supposed to take a test, and he worries that he'll be bright enough, because he knows the results of the test are EXTREME. His parents give a sad smile as he goes to take the test, because they know that THINKING is frowned upon. I remember that from like the 4th grade, and it troubled me for weeks.

lpetrich · 03-20-2003, 06:13 PM

I wonder if there is some sort of natural selection of anti-intellectualism -- those sects that discourage critical thinking the most are the ones that hold onto their followers the best, and that is why we see those ones.

Clete · 03-21-2003, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Reminds me of the asimov story where the boy is supposed to take a test, and he worries that he'll be bright enough, because he knows the results of the test are EXTREME. His parents give a sad smile as he goes to take the test, because they know that THINKING is frowned upon. I remember that from like the 4th grade, and it troubled me for weeks.

That story is by Asimov? I saw an episode of The Twilight Zone (the "new" incarnation of the series back in the 80s) based on it, but I could never remember who the author was. I've been wondering about this for years � seriously! Thank you for enlightening me Verbal... er... I mean Keyser Soze!

You don't by any chance remember the title of the story do you?

Gregg · 03-21-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clete
That story is by Asimov? I saw an episode of The Twilight Zone (the "new" incarnation of the series back in the 80s) based on it, but I could never remember who the author was. I've been wondering about this for years � seriously! Thank you for enlightening me Verbal... er... I mean Keyser Soze!

You don't by any chance remember the title of the story do you?

I'm thinking that's actually a Kurt Vonnegut short story. Did a quick search but couldn't find it. I'll keep looking.

Gregg

Gregg · 03-21-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gregg
I'm thinking that's actually a Kurt Vonnegut short story. Did a quick search but couldn't find it. I'll keep looking.

Gregg

OK, I believe it's "Harrison Bergeron," which was made into a 1995 tv-movie starring Sean Astin.

Gregg

Taffer · 03-21-2003, 10:47 AM

Reminds me of a fundie classmate of mine who'll readily accept stuff from the teachers, but immediately denounces anything that implies an old earth or evolution. And I do mean anything.

In fact, just today, our German teacher showed a chart detailing how the Indogermanic language (Is that how you say it in English?) changed and branched out to reach the variety of tongues we know today. He said:

"Huh. Evolutionists even managed to manipulate this."

In his opinion, the chart should have the pre-Tower of Babel language in the middle, and then every single other language radiating out from it individually.

I poked and prodded him after I stopped gaping, but he didn't actually challenge the teacher on the subject.

Spaz · 03-21-2003, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taffer
Reminds me of a fundie classmate of mine who'll readily accept stuff from the teachers, but immediately denounces anything that implies an old earth or evolution. And I do mean anything.

In fact, just today, our German teacher showed a chart detailing how the Indogermanic language (Is that how you say it in English?) changed and branched out to reach the variety of tongues we know today. He said:

"Huh. Evolutionists even managed to manipulate this."

In his opinion, the chart should have the pre-Tower of Babel language in the middle, and then every single other language radiating out from it individually.

I poked and prodded him after I stopped gaping, but he didn't actually challenge the teacher on the subject.

That's just SAD really really sad, especially since evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the development of different languages. How can somebody believe that's how languages were really created? Oh well, perhaps there is some hope left...

christ-on-a-stick · 03-21-2003, 12:33 PM

Where are the creationists? Yooooooo hoooooooo....

I know we've got some here... confound it, I want to hear what they have to say!!!

Spaz -

Quote:

That's just SAD really really sad, especially since evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the development of different languages. How can somebody believe that's how languages were really derived?

They HAVE to believe it (the Tower of Babel thing).. otherwise, once they've admitted one thing being false, they can no longer claim inerrancy. I agree that it's very sad.

Taffer - your classmate said

Quote:

"Huh. Evolutionists even managed to manipulate this."

Gah! That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about... they really think that scientists are all in on some big conspiracy to cover up or distort the truth. Truly wacky.

WWSD · 03-21-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by christ-on-a-stick

It seems that on one hand they (fundamentalist Xians) rely on and TRUST the scientific method for personal health and safety, but when it comes to other issues they have a knee-jerk reaction that "if it doesn't fit in my presuppositions, it CAN'T be true". How do they reconcile this? Do they really believe that all scientists the world over are engaged in a Massive Scientific Conspiracy to "tell the truth" when it comes to how aspirin or penicillin works but be MAKING STUFF UP when it comes to evolution?

Its all made up, but god, in his eternal grace, allowed the "scientists" to actually "discover" some useful things like antibiotics and radio waves.

But this garbage about DNA and evolution and man coming from monkeys is just that, garbage. Really, if man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys huh? WHY?

Athiests are just looking for anything they can to "disprove" god so that they can live immoraly and not have to feel guilty about it.

As for why god waited so long to allow us poor sinner humans (unworthy and bound for hell and deserving of eternal hellfire as we are) wonderful things like modern medicine, well, god works in very, very mysterious ways. Ways which sinners and unbelievers will never even come close to trying to think about undertanding since you're all just blinded by your athiest faith anyway.

The earth is only 6000 years old people, and the stars and light and everything else were all created "en route" to give the appearance of an old unvierse to demonstrate god's greatness.

Take that you sinners.

Infidelettante · 03-21-2003, 05:04 PM

I got *saved* at sixteen back in the sixties and spent ten years in fundamentalist christianism. We were all convinced that Satan controled and directed the scientific community. It was then and still is a bulwark of the fundie belief system. And I still get pissed when I think what they do to kids and how hard it is for some of us to get it out of our brains.

JT

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03-20-2003, 06:13 PM	#12
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I wonder if there is some sort of natural selection of anti-intellectualism -- those sects that discourage critical thinking the most are the ones that hold onto their followers the best, and that is why we see those ones.

03-21-2003, 10:47 AM	#16
Taffer Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bern, Switzerland Posts: 348	Reminds me of a fundie classmate of mine who'll readily accept stuff from the teachers, but immediately denounces anything that implies an old earth or evolution. And I do mean anything. In fact, just today, our German teacher showed a chart detailing how the Indogermanic language (Is that how you say it in English?) changed and branched out to reach the variety of tongues we know today. He said: "Huh. Evolutionists even managed to manipulate this." In his opinion, the chart should have the pre-Tower of Babel language in the middle, and then every single other language radiating out from it individually. I poked and prodded him after I stopped gaping, but he didn't actually challenge the teacher on the subject.

03-21-2003, 05:04 PM	#20
Infidelettante Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Deep South Posts: 889	I got saved at sixteen back in the sixties and spent ten years in fundamentalist christianism. We were all convinced that Satan controled and directed the scientific community. It was then and still is a bulwark of the fundie belief system. And I still get pissed when I think what they do to kids and how hard it is for some of us to get it out of our brains. JT

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