Jamie_L

Alright, that post is going to take us WILDLY off course - not just down a tangent. However, those of us on here seem to have exhausted the OP, so I'll bite. For now. Even though the post was directed at someone else.

Clearly there is some aspect of existence that must be a brute fact. I like to call it the BFE (Brute Fact of Existence). Not to be confused with BFD. The BFE could be the universe. It could be God. Generally speaking, I take the universe itself to be the BFE, because it's a simpler explanation than universe + God. And, I have observed the universe. God is just a story people tell me about.

Isn't that true of all people? Everyone believes in what they conclude to be factual. To do otherwise is more or less insane.

Um. No. So the rest of this paragraph doesn't apply.

OF COURSE atheism can't exist without theism. Atheism is the position that what theists propose to be true is not. If there were no theists, ther would be no atheists. There would only be non-theists (people with no concept of God).

Metaphysical Naturalism, of course, can exist without refering to theism or religion.

What is the lineage of atheism. It goes something like this:

Two cavemen are sitting around staring at the stars.

One asks, "where do you suppose this all came from?"

The other says, "a super-powerful being must have created them all."

The first responds, "That doesn't seem likely."

And there you go, the first atheist. Notice, if the second guy had said "I don't know," there would be no atheists in this scenario.

Jamie

kctan

Of course god would want sin, otherwise how can he sell his salvation plan ? Remember, if there's no sin, then there's no need for salvation.

What's the best way a god can reek up lots of souls for himself ? Invent an useless product (sin) & sweet talk (heaven or hell - your pick) people to buy it. The best part is he don't have to deliver until you're dead.

BTW Like someone on this thread to prove that this universe can only hold one god. You know who you are. Even jehovah said that there are other gods besides him. Unless it's a case of choose & pick again.

Philosoft

Yes.

<strong> I would like to know the answer. Honest.

<strong> Who knows? It's possible your answer will have a profound effect on me. Of course, I suspect that probability approaches zero. Is that resolute enough?

<strong> Well, atheists are a rare breed, especially in the south it seems, so I appreciate the fellowship, such as it is with an electronic medium. Second, there are some truly brilliant people who post here. The amount of knowledge contained herein is staggering. Third, atheists only doctrinally agree on one thing. All other topics will find a wide range of opinions. Fourth, many theists who do post here regularly tend to be at least intellectually equal to many atheists. High-quality debate is a worthy pursuit.

Mageth

You would probably say "yes, but not GOD". I think that is because, you can't put GOD in a test tube for you to examine and pick apart and manipulate into a tool to serve your own needs/desires.

Of course I can't. God doesn't exist.

And you will not follow what you don't believe in and you won't believe things that aren't true/factual.

Well, I would hope this would apply to you, as well. It'd be stupid to follow what you don't believe in, wouldn't it, or to believe things that aren't true/factual?

Worse, is you probably believe there is no such thing as truth/fact (objective), so you have no firmly held beliefs at all, less one, and that would be the firmly held beliefs that there is nothing that is true.

Boy, you sure assume to know a lot about what I think/believe. Too bad you're wrong.

I wonder what the lineage of atheism is? It often times seem atheism is the lamprey or leach of theism, for it has no ability to sustain itself on its own. It is the scavenger, the vulture of the religious world, waiting for the week (in faith) to fall behind the pack and then it strikes.

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous, and funny in a way, things I've read in a while. Atheism is merely lack of belief in god. Atheism as some kind of entity that pounces on the weak of faith? Give me a break.

It's ironic that religion can exist contently with out the atheist, but is the contrary true.

Well, if there were no religion, I'd still lack belief in god, right?