Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Defiant Heretic · 05-06-2003, 12:26 PM

Thomas Aquinas. Granted, his arguments weren't all that great, but at least he tried to argue his position logically.

philechat · 05-06-2003, 01:12 PM

Kierkegaard--certainly a free spirit dressed in Christian robe.

Tom Sawyer · 05-06-2003, 01:48 PM

I respect Calvin.

He said that God, being omniscient, knows in advance who's going to heaven and hell and there's nothing anyone can do about it, so live with it.

We often use that argument when arguing with theists about the problems of omniscience and free will, and this guy accepted that it's a valid one and stood up and accepted it like a man. However weird the theory may be, he had the balls keep with it to it's logical conclusion and not pussy-foot around with any mental gymnastics to try and reconcile it with the nice, lovey-dovey God image most people try and put forth, glossing over the less rosy implications of their God myth.

Entropic_Gnosis · 05-06-2003, 01:59 PM

Siddhartha Gautama (buddha): For creating an ethical philosophy that relies upon the nature of the human condition and empathy for life as opposed to the will of some deity.

Origen of Alexandria: He merged the helenistic philosophy with christianity in an attempt to make religion rational. Later seen as a heretic.

St. Francis: How can you go wrong with a crazy animal lover in a brown robe who thought that being kind was a good thing?

Dogen: His observations on the teachings of the Buddha are just amazing to read, especially the painted rice cake one.

DoubleDutchy · 05-06-2003, 02:16 PM

The Dalai Lama.
A series of pretty fundie Calvinist ministers that made up the backbone of the Dutch resistance against the nazi's.
Pope John XXXIII.
Alexander Solshenitshin.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
John Ockham (quite a surprise nobody mentioned him before

).
Fransesco d'Assisi.
Father Brown...

Defenitely not JC, can't stand him frankly.

DoubleDutchy · 05-06-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Sawyer
I respect Calvin.

He said that God, being omniscient, knows in advance who's going to heaven and hell and there's nothing anyone can do about it, so live with it.

We often use that argument when arguing with theists about the problems of omniscience and free will, and this guy accepted that it's a valid one and stood up and accepted it like a man. However weird the theory may be, he had the balls keep with it to it's logical conclusion and not pussy-foot around with any mental gymnastics to try and reconcile it with the nice, lovey-dovey God image most people try and put forth, glossing over the less rosy implications of their God myth.

He had the balls to send heritics to the stake as well. Read his letters on the case of Michel de Servet, who dared to have some doubts about the biblical foundation of the Trinity doctrine. A merciless and icecold fanatic; in the horror-cabinet of history he deserves a prominent stand somewhere next to Reinhardt Heydrich.

Bluenose · 05-06-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDutchy
John Ockham (quite a surprise nobody mentioned him before )

Do you mean:
William of Ockham , English Franciscan 1290 ?-1349
who did not say:
"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem."
in any extant work according to Flew .

christ-on-a-stick · 05-06-2003, 03:21 PM

Tom Sawyer -

Quote:

We often use that argument when arguing with theists about the problems of omniscience and free will, and this guy accepted that it's a valid one and stood up and accepted it like a man. However weird the theory may be, he had the balls keep with it to it's logical conclusion and not pussy-foot around with any mental gymnastics to try and reconcile it with the nice, lovey-dovey God image most people try and put forth, glossing over the less rosy implications of their God myth.

This is an interesting point... in this case I would have to say I respect his consistency ... however I still can't respect the man himself. The whole propogation of a horrifically odious mythology
as truth, and all.

Hubble head · 05-06-2003, 03:22 PM

I'll respect the one that comes out and convinces the world of the truth.

DoubleDutchy · 05-06-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluenose
Do you mean:
William of Ockham , English Franciscan 1290 ?-1349
who did not say:
"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem."
in any extant work according to Flew .

Shame on me, I messed up things a bit..

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05-06-2003, 12:26 PM	#21
Defiant Heretic Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,288	Thomas Aquinas. Granted, his arguments weren't all that great, but at least he tried to argue his position logically.

05-06-2003, 01:12 PM	#22
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	Kierkegaard--certainly a free spirit dressed in Christian robe.

05-06-2003, 01:48 PM	#23
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	I respect Calvin. He said that God, being omniscient, knows in advance who's going to heaven and hell and there's nothing anyone can do about it, so live with it. We often use that argument when arguing with theists about the problems of omniscience and free will, and this guy accepted that it's a valid one and stood up and accepted it like a man. However weird the theory may be, he had the balls keep with it to it's logical conclusion and not pussy-foot around with any mental gymnastics to try and reconcile it with the nice, lovey-dovey God image most people try and put forth, glossing over the less rosy implications of their God myth.

05-06-2003, 01:59 PM	#24
Entropic_Gnosis Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Library Posts: 372	Siddhartha Gautama (buddha): For creating an ethical philosophy that relies upon the nature of the human condition and empathy for life as opposed to the will of some deity. Origen of Alexandria: He merged the helenistic philosophy with christianity in an attempt to make religion rational. Later seen as a heretic. St. Francis: How can you go wrong with a crazy animal lover in a brown robe who thought that being kind was a good thing? Dogen: His observations on the teachings of the Buddha are just amazing to read, especially the painted rice cake one.

05-06-2003, 02:16 PM	#25
DoubleDutchy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 889	The Dalai Lama. A series of pretty fundie Calvinist ministers that made up the backbone of the Dutch resistance against the nazi's. Pope John XXXIII. Alexander Solshenitshin. Dietrich Bonhoeffer. John Ockham (quite a surprise nobody mentioned him before ). Fransesco d'Assisi. Father Brown... Defenitely not JC, can't stand him frankly.

05-06-2003, 03:22 PM	#29
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	I'll respect the one that comes out and convinces the world of the truth.

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