not a theist

Of course.
Possibly, though even if it was, how rigorously enforced this was at that time is questionable.
Yes for God. No for the son of God.
The Romans did not determine "that Jesus had not broken the law".
The Romans executed him.
The only reason we have for believing that the Romans resisted executing him is from the clearly apologetic accounts of the gospels. The gospels seek to make Christianity appear to be non-threatening to Rome and so seek to exculpate Pilate as the representative of Rome from being ultimately responsible for Jesus' death.

The sanhedrin if they were involved at all were simply trying to prevent a disturbance which they feared might have resulted in a riot or insurrection, i.e. they were trying to "keep the peace".

Added:
Here's Paula Fredriksen's take on it from <a href="http://www.bu.edu/religion/faculty/fredriksen/purity.html" target="_blank">Jesus, Purity, and the Christian
Study of Judaism</a>:

"What else might account for the disparate facts of Jesus' pilgrimage to Jerusalem, his arrest by the priestly authorities, and his crucifixion? His belief in the approaching Kingdom of God. We should construe "Kingdom", further, in light of ancient religious hopes, not modern political ones. Jesus went up to Jerusalem for Passover, the archtypical festival of liberation, to announce the impending Kingdom. His gesture with the tables, if historical, would have announced the same message: The overturned tables symbolized the approaching destruction of the earthly Temple, which would cede place to the final Temple, one not made by the hand of man. The High Priest, aware of the crowd's restive energy, apprehensive about Pilate and anxious to minimize bloodshed, acted quickly to arrest Jesus and turn him over to the prefect, after questioning "Jesus about his disciples and his teaching" (John 18:19). Pilate killed him. Rome disliked proclamations of other kingdoms."

and here are her comments from <a href="http://www.bu.edu/religion/faculty/fredriksen/context.htm" target="_blank">WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET: Context and Content in Current Research on the Historical Jesus</a>:

"He had already been to Jerusalem the previous Passover and the one before that, getting the crowds all worked up about the coming kingdom. This year, both he and the crowds seemed even more excited. How long could Pilate be counted on not to act? Thus, the secret arrest, the rushed interview with Caiaphas, or Caiaphas and Annas, and then on to Pilate and death."

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: not a theist ]</p>

Ted Hoffman

Kirby
Can type well? What are you talking about?

And here is the translation of Vermes.

Translation of what? 4Q246?
It sure looks different.
It seems to indicate a lot of similarity to Daniels prophecy but it leaves out a lot of other parts of the prophecy unexplained:
1) The four beasts/ Kings
2) The fourth beast
3) The ten horns on his head and the one that the three that fell before.
4) that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
5) That the horn made war with the saints NOT "ALL" - this is a huge difference.
Of course the word comets is also not addressed by Vermes said transalation, their short reign, their kingdom being like a comet (my hypothesis provides for two possible explanations - fiery (ie tumultous) or dark - ie evil), their reigning over the earth - as opposed to reigning over Assyria and or Egypt, and with my hypothesis, people trampling one another is clear in Genesis 6. In Daniel, its the saints being trampled upon.

As far as I can see, its an ad-hoc explanation. It seems the author was just seeking for a part of the bible that had some parallel with what is described in 4Q246.

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: Intensity ]</p>

Peter Kirby

Intensity writes: Can type well? What are you talking about?

The next sentence said: "Here is what Geza Vermes has to say in The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English (pp. 579-577)." And I proceeded to type out a couple pages from the book by Vermes.

Intensity writes: Translation of what? 4Q246? It sure looks different.

Yes, the tranlsation by Vermes that I typed out is of 4Q246.

best,
Peter Kirby

atrahasis

Looking at the way you respond to intesity's posts, it clear that you are avoiding the heart of the matter, running away from the strong points.
By that you commit a fallacy; You create a Straw man
Please read Alan alford book When the Gods Came down and see why ancient religions(the ancient sumerians, the egyptians and the greek) reffered to comets as gods.
-------------------------------------------------

--Thanks---

Peter Kirby

Intensity aka Black Moses writes:

Looking at the way you respond to intesity's posts, it clear that you are avoiding the heart of the matter, running away from the strong points.
By that you commit a fallacy; You create a Straw man

You obviously don't know what a strawman is.

Intensity aka Black Moses writes:

Please read Alan alford book When the Gods Came down and see why ancient religions(the ancient sumerians, the egyptians and the greek) reffered to comets as gods.

I don't take orders from sock puppets.

best,
Peter Kirby

lcb

A lecturer I listened to had an opportunity to meet two of the jewish scholars who worked on the dead sea scrolls translations, he said that several of the jewish translators had quietly become messianic jewish believers as a result of their work on the scrolls. It is my understanding that there is another cave complex still being excavated which may include even earlier preserved scrolls.Apparently earthquakes or other earth effects have deposited a lot of rubble and soil over another possible dozen or so cave sites.p.s. this is not being proposed as a "proof" of anything or an argument, merely an anecdotal aside to the dead sea scrolls theological and archaeological "calculus".

not a theist

Whose name was...
Which ones?
Who said? The lecturer or one of the Jewish scholars?
Which ones?
Why quietly? So as to make it unverifiable?

Amen-Moses

Nice to see a true skeptic at work.

Amen-Moses

Bill

It seems that there are numerous alleged translations of this particular scroll if you do an Internet serch on them. On the one hand, we have the <a href="http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article1.htm" target="_blank">Christian translation</a>, such as that which began this thread: Contrast the above interpretation of 4Q246 with <a href="http://www.inspiredbooks.com/Sons.htm" target="_blank">a different one</a>, posted by a Urantia believer: I think that this is basically an example of the well-known psychological syndrome of self-identification: every reader sees in this text exactly what it is that they wish to see.

== Bill

lcb

uhh not a theist...I specifically said it wasnt a proof or an argument....Dr. Grant Jeffrey, reference Dr. Craig Evans (if i recall correctly is at Trinity Western University) I will get their e-mails if you want them.fwiw, Dr. Edwin Yamauchi of Miami University says the same thing. This is a well known and settled issue by the way. There is a reason why the orthodox jewish custodians of the scrolls fought tooth and nail to keep them away from outside academics for so long. And you started this argument not me.