echidna

In a sense, part of II's mission statement is akin to colonising the space which exists in some people's minds ...

Dark Jedi

I was thinking on the subject (And outlining a novel):

If we build a space elevator, and establish orbital colonies, wouldn't it be the next logical step to establish an elevator on the moon, with an orbital colony there as well?

This is not even assuming we find natural resources on or in the moon, merely to support low-G colonies and manufacturing as well as tourism.

How powerful would the individual or company that manages this, instead of a government entity?

Now, imagine resources are found and mineable...
Mine out the solid core of the moon, require equal payload exchange for Earth debris/garbage in exchange.

Now you maintain the moon's mass over time, have a strong secondary income of refuse disposal, and are positioned to bomb the hell out of any Earth target ala Heinlein's gravity well bomb.

And bombing them with solidified refuse of their own making is just poetic justice...

Demosthenes

It's not really necessary to build an elevator on moon. It's gravity is sufficently low enough that you can easily use low level propulsion to launch yourself into orbit. So, there's no need for an elevator infrastructure in place on the moon.

There a link to a foundation that was established in response to an quite interesting proposal written during the 80s.

<a href="http://www.luf.org" target="_blank">The Living Universe Foundation</a>

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: Demosthenes ]</p>

enigma555

The other side of that coin, Demos, is that fuel isn't exactly in abundant supply on the moon as far as we know.

Chip

For transporting materials off the moon the magnetism run accelerator of Gerard O'Neil's design can work. Working models have already been created. Solar generated electricity charges up batteries or some other storage device and then is used to propel carts with magnetic pulses, just as in a linear accelerator. At the end of the track, ore or refined materials from the moon continue on towards the Lagrange points. As far as space elevators go, sure we'll use them to get us off planet but we might also find they are useful to get the materials from other moons or planets, such as Europa, where there is apparently a great deal of ice. Water appears to be one thing that the moon can not provide in abundance for the colonization of space.

Regards, Chip

Mageth

Coincidentally, I'm currently reading "The Web Between The Worlds" by Charles Sheffield, one of the first Sci-fi books that used the space elevator.

[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

Island3

Hot damn another O'Neill fan! Seeing as how you didn't seem to directly allude to it in your post Chip I must ask if you've been able to experience the joy of reading the most recent version of the High Frontier?

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Island3 ]</p>

Island3

The answers you seek can be found <a href="http://lifesci3.arc.nasa.gov/SpaceSettlement/" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.permanent.com/" target="_blank">here</a>.

Chip

Hi Island3,

Nope, I think I missed the latest version of High Frontier. Can you give me more concrete reference? I suspect it is a book. Is there a review anywhere?

TIA, Chip

American Agnostic

1. The difference in "gravity" only becomes a problem when the you try to make artifical gravity in a small container when the distance from your head to your toes is a significant fraction of the distance from the floor to the axis of rotaion. This is generally only going to be a problem when you try to rotae something that's only ten or so meters across. The coriolis effect goes down dramatically when you extend the radius of rotaion out several hundered meters since you don't have to spin the container nearly as fast to get a given level of gravity on the inner wall. The effects whould be negligable when you extend it out to a couple kilometers as many of these proposals call for. Living in zero-g for extended peroids will require new medical technologies or perhaps genetic engineering but the space colonies we're talking about would have normal (or any level the colonists want) gravity with progressively lower gravity as you near the axis of rotation.

2. Although space would be at a premium on say the manned mission to Mars, as the technology it would become practicle to build more spacious ships (just look at a Gemini capsule compared with the space shutlle). Besides, what meake you think that the colonists would want to live in a cramped tin can? The inside of a space colonie would look just like Earth, complete with rivers, lakes, hills, forrests, and even waether. Crampped condition have always and will always be the norm on the frontier but once their basic needs are taken care of the colonists will want to live comfortably.

3. True, radiation does pose a serious prblem for traveling beyond Earth. This problem can be solved in one of three ways: advanced materials that provide the same radiation prection but wiegh far less (I saw an article about a new material which provides the protection of a conventional lead reation suit for a fraction of the wieght, and thus size, but I can't remember where), geneticaly engineer people to stand the radiation that is too difficult to block, or spending a lot more on making the walls thick enough. Personally, I think that we'll probibly go with the first one.

4. As I've pointed out, gravity won't be a problem for something as big as a space colony since the rotational axis will be measured in kilometers and thus plants will do just fine and could do a lot of the recycling (oxygen, water, waste products, etc). Its true that recycling will be needed but don't forget that it doesn't neseccarly have to be perfect since the colony will trade with any other off-world colonies as well as Earth for anything they have trouble making. A space colony would be able to offer goods that neither Earth nor any colony based on a planetary surface would since the center of the colony would experiance zero-g and thus could produce materials or chemicals that are impossible to make otherwise.

5. Like I said, the cost of getting payloads into orbit is why the average person is still stuck here on Earth. In the next decade or two the next generation of lauch vehicles will come into service. These will cut the cost to about $1000/lb. Although this is still VERY expesive it will allow space to be opened up to bussiness since the average Westerner could afford a once in a lifetime trip to sapce at this cost. The potential of building a space elevator will make space travel even more common. In short, I am presuming that a space colony won't be build until launch costs are relatively cheap. They also require there to be some industrial infrastructure in place to assemble them.