Anti-Materialist

Ah ha - exactly.


But when people talk to God during a ketamine driven NDE, God doesn't tell them what they want to hear. God is sometimes very harsh in judging their actions.

Of course, you will just say that is a subconscious manifestation of their conscience.


And yes - it is a personality. It is not described as being the same as talking to yourself in the mirror. They don't feel like they are driving the experience, they feel like they are being spoken to.

Jinto

In other words, rather than discarding your hypothesis when it conflicts with reality, you pretend that it hasn't just been falsified and continue using it. This doesn't seem like a very good approach to science. A better approach is to, when variations on a common theme keep getting falsified by hard data (specifically, when various "Gods" keep getting replaced with natural explanations), conclude that the theme must not be indicative of reality, and test a new theme.

By the way, if I was a God and I were designing the universe, I would probably design it from an absolute frame of reference. Easier to keep track of everything that way. Thus, if God exists, and God thinks in a similar manner to myself, then the principle of special relativity is false. Therefore, either God doesn't exist, or he thinks in a very different manner frrom myself. In either case, I'm not going to get very far with the "If I was God" approach.

Bugs

It's called a hallucination. That's because Ketamine is an hallucinogen. Get the connection? You prefer inventing an unnecessary entity.

Anti-Materialist

Ketamine is a dissociative. Not the same thing at all.


And the fact that you label it as a hallucinogen does not mean it is "just" a hallucination. Your labeling something does not make it so.

Jinto

Did I say that God almost never judges their actions harshly? Where did I say that? I said that God almost never disagrees with a major tenet of their worldview. And how many times have you heard of someone who (for instance) stops hating homosexuality after God told him to get over himself? How many times have you heard people suddenly joining Fred Phelps after God told them how abominable homosexuals were? I believe you will find that the answer to both is "never." Why? To me, the answer is self-evident.

Tell me, since when has being in control of the situation ever been a component of hallucinations?

Anti-Materialist

No no no, not at all. You are the one making the judgement call that God is unnecessary. I am inside my head. I am really quite sure there is not another personality hanging out in there. I see that as the unnecessary entity being invented.

When Schizophrenics hear voices, it is really a very different subjective experience from the NDE talking to God experience. The voices take time to develop a personality of their own. It starts subtle, then builds up to evil commentary on their behavior.

With an NDE talking to God experience, it happens all at once, and your brain is being partially shut down by a powerful anesthetic. Your brain has not had the time to concoct a voice with a personality, the way it does with schizophrenia.

Anti-Materialist

Fair enough. If I am able to find evidence from Ketamine driven NDE experiences where God does disagree with their world view, would that make you less certain of your position?

Bugs

It is not intuitive. And believe me, that is the last time I’m going to tell you that. God is unnecessary because there is another natural explanation. God is an invention because there is no other evidence for it. And that is what you have decided not to understand. You’ve completely missed the point. Again.

A hallucinogen is: Which is what you experience when you take it.

You have a choice. Either the drug is acting on your brain to give you an hallucination. (A natural explanation.) Or you can invent God. I’ve explained this to you enough times now. Your speculations about God would not help anybody develop anything. If you don’t want to understand it that’s up to you.

Jinto

Depends. If what you have is a couple of exceptions to the rule, then probably not. Now if there were a lot of them, and if the disagreements were strongly slanted in one direction (i.e. whenever God disagrees with someone, he always takes a similar viewpoint), then that would indeed be evidence of something unusual.

Anti-Materialist

I will dig further and see what I can find.

I just had another thought about this as well. Shouldn't it be possible for someone to give God a message during a God chat session?

You could put two people into a ketamine NDE at the same time - but in separate rooms.


Then, while talking to God, they could try to get God to pass a message on to the other. If the message gets passed on with any sort of accuracy, it could mean something.


The message could be something like "God, will you tell George over in room 7B that my ducks all have purple feet?"

God could then say "Sure Bob - lettuce give that a try"

Now, if George comes back from his NDE and says the message was "George, you're getting fat and you should really cut down on all the fried chicken you eat."

Then I bet we would have a pretty good bet that this was not God passing on a message. However, if George says the message was "feed my purple duck" then we might be on to something here!


Do you guys think God would mind being tested in that way? I would enjoy testing him, I think.