Talulah

I think that if a person is questioning their status as a atheist, or wanting to make sure they have made the right decision, then they should go to source material. Read the literature of the belief system you want to know about.

The difference, is that the Xtain who is wavering and surrounds himself with other xtains and xtain literature, is enmeshing himself in the interest of his soul. He sees doubt as a work of the devil, not healthy curiousity.

Freethinkers see doubt and skeptism in a much better light, you don't need to enmesh yourself in atheistic thought to protect your beliefs against outside influence.

abe smith

Been there; and come-away. Junk that liar-stuff.

Perchance

Hi abe,

This is interesting. Do you think then that there is no truth in theism whatsoever, and that those who see it there are fooling themselves?

-Perchance.

HelenM

I expect that having some kind of significant new experience it would motivate you to do some reading and look for an explanation for your experience.

I would imagine it would be very unsettling - but if you could adapt your current worldview to incorporate it, you'd be more likely to do that than to abandon what you've always believed (or not believed, if you see what I mean). A quick look at the replies to the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=47&t=001104" target="_blank">latest Gemma Therese thread</a> makes it clear how difficult it can be to change one's worldview.

take care
Helen

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: HelenM ]</p>

Perchance

Hi Helen,

Yes, I suspect it would. However, there's no guarantee I would find that answer in religion.

Yes, and unless the experience were so powerful that I was convinced it had to have a supernatural or religious explanation before I even looked at any information on it, then I suspect I wouldn't change my worldview.

-Perchance.

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: Perchance ]</p>

Debbie T

I think exploring the powerful experience would reveal more than a religious experience. For instance a person that has been bottling up emotions from years of taking mental abuse. They come forward to be saved and a the dam of emotions bursts during the conversion. Was it the conversion or did the act itself help release some pressure making the person feel cleansed? I would say this would be a powerful experience without the religion when a person gives themselves permission to just let it go.

What usually happens though is the person claims it came from salvation yet this experience could happen without "salvation".

Perchance

I would be skeptical of this personally only because I don't have a habit of repressing my emotions (only of expressing them privately, in writing or online, instead of doing it in public). I also have not had a very hard life- nothing compared to what some people have gone through. I don't think that I'm in much danger of conversion because of emotions bursting out. Other people might be.

Here, we can agree. In fact, I think it's only because they've been taught to think in a particular religious context that they believe salvation happens at all; if someone had never heard of the experience, I don't think he or she would classify an experience like this as salvation.

-Perchance.

St. Robert

According to the Bible, Jesus claimed to be the truth. He also said that the truth will set you free. Jesus sets people free from the bondage of their sin.

If a person doesn't believe that they need to be set free from sin, then they will likely reject Jesus and also the truth. The bottom line for the atheist is: Do they need a Savior?

I decided to become a Christian, because I believe that what Jesus said about Himself is true. He is the way, the truth, and the life. I turned to Jesus not out of fear, but rather out of a lack of fulfillment. I needed the Savior.

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

Silent Dave

St. Robert, two questions.

First, do you say "the way, the truth, and the life" when having discussions with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and other non-Christian theists? Or is it a phrase you reserve for nonbelievers only?

And second, do you think that a certain answer providing personal fulfillment is a valid criterion for determining a historical truth? For example, if Muhammed's preaching the word of Allah would fulfill me and give meaning to my life, should I accept it as true?


Dave

Captain Pedantic

Any point of view that cannot stand up to an opposite argument is a bad point of view. No matter what it is.

Researching other religions is good if you want to be sure of what you do (or do not) believe in. If you refuse to even consider listening to the point of view of someone who thinks differently, you come across not as someone who has "seen through the lies" but as someone who is too arrogant to consider another point of view, and someone who is too insecure to listen to what other people consider "evidence" for their beliefs.

This is true whichever side of the fence you are on.