7thangel

Very well, you are not saying that the mind does not exist, right? I am not comparing "gravity" with "mind," what I am saying is that these things exist and are invisible. You actually furthered my point. It does not mean that an invisible cannot exist, and put forth any words to describe them.

braces_for_impact

You see, the sky is blue because giant leprechauns abound in the forest beyond the trees, bathing in a waterfall of flowers and drunk on a pair of old leather boots.

See! Thus you prove my point for me! Aha!

Angrillori

What? Did you even read it? I mean, sheesh, whether the bible was meant to be clear or not is a different story, but in the 1 Kings 18 story pretty explicitly SAYS, these people had turned away from 'the LORD,' (v. 18 "You have abandoned the Lord's comands and have followed the Baals.)

How is this in any way different from those here who have turned away from the Lord to follow their own ways?

Tell me to if this is an incorrect summary of the story:
Elijah found people in apostasy, worshipping another god. SO he challenged the other god to a showdown. The other god didn't show up, and god did, thus causing many to return to their faith in him.

How did these people 'understand the godhead' (whatever that actually means) any differently than any other group that has turned away in the past?

Once again we come to a point where a christian expects me to believe his contorted sophistry above and beyond what god clearly and explicitly wrote in his word. Doesn't that scare you at all 7th?

7thangel

On the first statement, I speak having no knowledge of who's who to be saved, so I am appealing unto all.

Of the second statement, I speak of God's plans. As I always say, all things will work together for good to the chosen, meaning not all.

In any case, this is the like problem when discussing with fellow christians about God's predestination. So you will always find me of conflicting statements of appealing to everyone, while teaching predestination.

7thangel

If I get your implication, you "totally" misunderstood me. Because I do not parallel my understanding of God to yours.

Wyz_sub10

I don't understand how you support your original statement - "Gods wants us to be convincved"- with the rationale provided above (having no knowedge...).

How are these two related? Are you saying that your original statement applies only to those who are saved?

If so, it seems you are saying that those who are saved have to work at understanding god's message, but those who are not, have no chance to do so in any case.

Hawkingfan

They exist differently. Gravity exists physically. The "mind" exists as a concept. It's subjective. It's like "love". Abstract. It doesn't really exist but only as an idea. Again, you cannot compare gravity with god. There is evidence of gravity, but none of god.

Jamie_L

I guess my unspoken challenge has always been very simple: convince me God exists. An omnipotent, omnicient God should have no problem seeing to it that this comes to pass. He should be able to pass on to his followers the knowledge necessary to make the arguements that will convince me.

I'm perfectly willing to "submit myself" to an all-powerful diety once I see good reason to. However, I'm not going to submit myself to any earthly institution without sufficient reason - certainly not just because they say so. Heck, which one that "says so" should I submit to? Christianity? Islam? Mormonism? Scientology? All at once? Maybe one at a time? In what order?

No, I'm not going to dream up challenges. There's really no need. If God is real, and God wants me to believe, I'm sure I will. I have faith that, if He's real, he can make me believe if he wants.

Since I don't... Well, draw your own conclusions. I've drawn mine.

Jamie

7thangel

It does not mean that Elijah did something, I should do the same. That basically is the reason why I say you are misunderstanding the Bible, and it has the big influence why you want me to accept the challenge.

I am not really scared, rather it gives me much burden to answer the ignorance, and frustrated when I see others who do not really understand. And I feel sorry for those who have closed their ears on hearing, or understanding, my defenses.

Wyz_sub10

...or perhaps you are not explaining yourself very well at times. It could be everyone else, but if many people (myself included) have difficulty understanding the knots you tie, maybe it's you.