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Old 02-03-2003, 12:46 PM   #31
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There's a new book out "The Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells that's based on the National Geographic documentary by the author. I haven't read the book but I've seen the show. It's a genetic detective story uncovering the history of humanity through their genes (which is comparable to Bryan Sykes's The Seven Daughters of Eve). If the book is as interesting as the documentary, then it would be a better book to include to the list. L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza's books (based on what people tell me) on human genes are also good.

I saw Journey of Man last night on PBS, for the second time (actually, I fell asleep halfway through the show the first time). It was excellent; informative and very entertaining. I too want to get the book.

The most interesting revelation of the show to me was the central Asian origin of Europeans, northern Asians, some Indians, and Native Americans.
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:46 PM   #32
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On second thought: I don't think I'd recommend Human Evolutionary Anatomy or The Primate Fossil Record as exactly introductory reading, but they should definitely be on a "for further information" list.
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Old 02-03-2003, 02:22 PM   #33
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Most of the books so far are at a fairly high academic level; for high schoolers and adults without any real science education, a good book is Walter Alvarez' T. Rex and the Crater of Doom, the tale of how we came to be certain that the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid impact. It contains lots of fine examples of the workings of science from a scientist's point of view, clear descriptions of how the age of fossils are determined, and lots of artist's conceptions of what the impact looked like, and the effects it had on the Earth and life. A fun read even for professionals, and a great place to start off your ninth or tenth grader.
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Old 02-04-2003, 02:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ergaster
On second thought: I don't think I'd recommend Human Evolutionary Anatomy or The Primate Fossil Record as exactly introductory reading, but they should definitely be on a "for further information" list.
True. I've not seen Hartwig (for obvious reasons ), but Aiello & Dean is pretty heavy going. It's well written and understandable, but so bloody detailed that it's hard to follow for more than a page or two without info overload. If you don't know a zygomatic arch from an arch of Constantine, it's definitely 'further reading'!

Mind you, Klein is similarly hard going. I'd start with Leakey and Johansen to get the basic names of the species in place, then move to Tattersall, then those others. The Cambridge Encyclopedia is also a good start. A lot of information, but split into absorbable chunks, and covers everything, not just fossils. Dawkins's intro/foreword with an explanation of 'mitochondrial Eve' is as elegant as you'd expect too.

Cheers, DT
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Old 02-04-2003, 03:29 AM   #35
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Originally posted by Secular Pinoy
This book might be what you're looking for, with regards to the burgess shale,
Haven’t seen it, but it does seem appropriate, thanks for that...

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though I don't understand why you'd be averse to Gould's wonderful book.
I’m averse to it in the way I’m averse to Conway Morris’s Crucible of Creation: not at all, and I have both. They are both recommendable. But Gould’s book, though wonderfully written, has been much criticised for the spin he puts on the stuff and is a bit dated now; conversely, Fortey has noted in his ‘Trilobite!’ some pretty uninhibited invective against Gould from CM. So for a balanced overview, something else would be a better place to start, rather than confuse Burgess Shale newbies with contention.

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I think books for the popular level ought to be recommended before advanced books, as it is easier to grasp (we're not all evolutionary biologists here). That should be foremost on our minds when making the list. We can't expect creationists, for instance, to readily grasp the idea of evolution reading Futuyma.
Absolutely. Apart from professionals, only no-life saddoes like myself voluntarily sit down and attempt to read the likes of Futuyma, Brock and Klein... and I realise when I’m not following them that I’m trying to run before I can walk. So a definite yes to the suggestion of splitting it down into simple, intermediate and reference.

Though to be clear, that’s Futuyma’s textbook, not his Science on Trial, which is accessible to anyone, and is a fantastic place to start for E/C matters (along with Miller, for the theists ), for it explains so much of the evidence for evolution along the way.

Kitcher is good, but deals with the philosophy and political side more than the evidence, and as we’ve learned with Long Winded Fool, it all comes down to the evidence really.

The simplest E/C book I know of is Tim Berra’s Evolution and the Myth of Creationism. It’s a bit lightweight really, but we have to aim low to start with!

Cheers, DT
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:58 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darwin's Terrier

I’m averse to it in the way I’m averse to Conway Morris’s Crucible of Creation: not at all, and I have both. They are both recommendable. But Gould’s book, though wonderfully written, has been much criticised for the spin he puts on the stuff and is a bit dated now; conversely, Fortey has noted in his ‘Trilobite!’ some pretty uninhibited invective against Gould from CM. So for a balanced overview, something else would be a better place to start, rather than confuse Burgess Shale newbies with contention.
I agree. I'd also add, though, that I found Crucible of Creation pretty much unreadable. I'd gotten used to complaining about Gould's writing, which got progressively more convoluted and difficult, but Conway Morris -- jeez, he's awful as a writer. It's all glutinous prose in a plodding style.
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The simplest E/C book I know of is Tim Berra’s Evolution and the Myth of Creationism. It’s a bit lightweight really, but we have to aim low to start with!
Yeah, in addition to adding more in-depth stuff within specialities, maybe we should think about a section of stuff that is so simple that it is an introduction to the introductory books. For instance, somewhere around the house I've got a book I picked up for the kids years ago that is almost all pictures -- it summarizes all of the suspected human 'ancestors' from the Cambrian to the present. It's thin on detail, but the kids found it fascinating, so it might be a nice primer.
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:59 AM   #37
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Well, if we're looking for easy-to-read and understand stuff, you can't go too far wrong with Zimmer's "Evolution: Triumph of an Idea". It also makes a nice coffee table book for when the fundie relations come over.
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:36 AM   #38
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Damn, I knew I should've gotten Berra's book! If you've read my other posts in the other forums, you'd know that I visited the US last year and bought ten books at a BN shop in San Francisco. I waffled with getting either Dawkins' River out of Eden or Berra's book (my budget, you see). I chose Dawkins since I like his writing style. Now that I've read it, I'm not really impressed with it. It's a weaker version of his other books (it's the same thing, only less entertaining).

I don't mind if it's lightweight, as it would be easier to use against your average creationist. I hope that there is a god, and that he would, in his divine wisdom, compel local bookstores to carry more Evo books. That would be a god worth worshipping, perhaps.
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Secular Pinoy
I chose River out of Eden since I like his writing style. Now that I've read it, I'm not really impressed with it. It's a weaker version of his other books (it's the same thing, only less entertaining).
I agree. I was not impressed by river out of eden myself. Its a very confused metaphor. Climbing mount improbable remains his best popular work (that is, ignoring his contribution to professional evolutionary biology from his first two books).
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:18 PM   #40
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Secular P wrote
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How about a booklist on Evo/Cre? From YEC to OEC and ID.
I just finished "Species of Origins" and found it a good, evenhanded survey of the major positions.

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