sandlewood

There is no atheist worldview. The only thing that can be said about an atheist is that he does not hold a belief that a god or gods exist. That's all.
I don't see any reason why David can't have an opinion on how the world could be better or worse. Perhaps he just needs to define what he means by "better". But there is nothing in the definition of "atheist" that prevents someone from making subjective judgements.

Koyaanisqatsi

It is even more telling that cult members just keep repeating their ill-conceived, poorly constructed, forced, illegitimate strawmen that don't ever apply in the manner they so desperately wish were the case.

You irrationally believe in the factual existence of a fictional fairy god king. You have no standing to claim anything at all, let alone an erroneous proclamation about atheist "worldviews" that do not and have not ever existed.

I guess you just aren't capable of simple cognitive processes, Theo, because this is about the fiftieth time you've tried to force this illegitimate crap in threads I've read. Atheism isn't a "worldview," no matter how desperately you want to pretend that it is in order for you to feel like you have some sort of counter-argument.

It has been expressly pointed out to you countless times that Atheism means the absence of belief in deity. There is no "worldview" or any argument about a "worldview" or any requirement to "justify" a "worldview." Nothing at all about worldviews, capisca?

You don't even have your own "worldview;" you have a self-delusional state at best and a mind-controlled subjugation to cult beliefs at worst.

Calling the childish insistance that magical fairy god kings factually exist a "worldview" is beyond laughable and it's time you faced that music and grew the f up!

I know mindless inculcation is your imaginary best friend, but here it doesn't work.

wyzaard

WHERE WAS THIS???

David Gould

What a load of shit.

And to think that Christian pressupositionalism nearly threw me for a while! What an idiot I have been.

I guess I should thank you, Theo, for showing how intellectually bankrupt Christian pressupositionalism really is.


Let me tell you how I, an atheist, define 'good', 'bad' and thus 'better'.

I do not like suffering. No need for an obejective standard for that, is there - purely subjective, isn't it?

Other people tell me they do not like suffering and still others, who cannot tell me in words, act as if they do not like suffering.

Ergo, I conclude that humans in general do not like suffering.

Thus, reducing suffering is a good thing from my subjective point of view.

And if God does not human suffering is reduced.

Therefore, God not existing is better than him existing.

Get it?

As I said in another thread, I do not think that Christian presuppositionalism exists. In fact, I do not think that Christians exist.

They all know that God does not exist in their hearts but are too frightened to admit it. Their fear of death overwhelms their sense of compassion for others.

However, in the dark of night when they can whisper it in their heads, they all say 'God does not exist and that is good.'

Have a nice day.

sir drinks-a-lot

This is interesting. I think there are alot of closet atheists out there but I also think there are true believers.

A friend of mine has a theory about Christians. He says it is just like watching a World Wrestling Federation match: The referees know it is fake, the crowd knows it is fake, the wrestlers know it's fake, but they all carry on as if it is real and no-one lets on that they don't believe. It is the same, he claims, with the Christians.

I hope I didn't spill the beans for any of you WWF fans out there.

David Gould

I'm a WWF fan. Go HHH - I am certain he is no fake

I also think that there are true believers.

However, I do not think Christian presuppositionalism actually exists.

Firstly, presuppose that the Bible is the perfect revelation from God.

Secondly, ask yourself whether humans are perfect.

If they answer is that they are not perfect, you are stuck.

You see, the only way to interpret God's perfect word is through reading it with imperfect eyes, interpreting it with imperfect reasoning and thinking about it in imperfect language.

Presuppositionalist may be correct in their first thing but there is not way they can pretend that they have objective knowledge of God that is objectively verified by the Bible.

As the presuppositionalist position is that the metaphysical naturalist can not objectively justify how knowledge is possible and therefore cannot be true, the presuppositionalist argument therefore proves that presuppositionalism is also false.

As the presuup argument is false, it cannot be used against naturalism.

Anyone who argues the pressup position is actually demonstrating its falseness and therefore no-one is really a presuppositionalist.

Panta Pei

Wyzaard:

The incident occurred in the City of Gulfport, MS, where I am employed. The trial was held mid-December, 1995.

FYI During closing arguments the defense attorney leaned against the podium activating a Xmas tie he was wearing, which began softly playing "I'll be home for Christmas" as he finished.

The case detective is my current supervisor, who just relayed to me the above closing argument information. He also reminded me that it was not considered a 'break in' as the couple were only estranged and the division of property had not been established. I stand corrected regarding that aspect

"In religion, what damned error, but some sober brow will bless it and approve it with a text, hiding the grossness with fair ornament?"
- Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice, III:2

Oh...that's why they burned works by Shakespeare with Harry Potter

~ Steve

Ted Hoffman

My, my, my Albert U sure have stirred up a storm here. U've got the hornets coming at you and they are stinging.
But I can see you are incredibly impervious to their stings.
Even then, going through this topic, I can see why you are apprehensive about the question of "Why you believe in God".

But I think you'll be okay. With the kind of resilience you have demonstated here, I know you will survive.

Albert Cipriani

Dear Jaliet,
First read of the morning and what a pleasant surprise. Thank you for your encouragement, but you know, it's really not needed cuz these hornets have no teeth. With the exception of non-coy Koy, they mostly just gum ya.

It's almost a disappointment in that they prevent me from earning any Christian merit badges for turning the other cheek or loving my enemies like I had to do on the poetry and Catholic boards I used to be on. These people are by and large civil and smart, rational but not to the extent of being without a sense of humor, and they're probably even not bad lookers.

I notice you're a trainer in Kenya. Would that be of lions or elephants? Or maybe the more ferocious Nairobi Gnat? I hear they're the atheistic distant mutated cousins of the American Hornet, impossible to swat! Good luck with whatever beast or insect you train on the other side of the Atlantic. Cheers, Albert

bgponder

Dear Bro. Bertie;

I know, without a doubt, that you are going to heaven, not passing go or purgatory or limbo or collecting $200 anywhere on the way--because you already have your hell, all in your own mind. Don't you ever read the uplifting parts of the book, that rejoice in the joys of the Creation? Like Song of Solomon. You don't want no cornbread; thass fine. Your not being Southern, it's understandable. But you gotta find some joy, man, somewhere. I feel for you, I really do. Please believe me when I say that I hope, yes, it is my hope, that God shows you some joy soon, and lots of it, before you meet Him.

Your suspicions are absolutely correct. I always make my cornbread from natural fact. But blasé!! (Dammit, where did you get that accent mark?) Let's look in the dictionary. Nah, can't be. "Bored with life"? Because I love this life? "As if from an excess of worldly pleasures"? I am a po' man. (No bullshit intended!) Of course I am indeed rich in the love of my family and (hopefully) my friends. I am truly living, Albert. Are you?

Sharing and self-absorption are antithetical. And you misquote. Re: "Life goes on for a little bitty while." And that's the point.

If you're going to quote Eastwood, in what is arguably the greatest western ever made, please get it closer, and get the context right:

Eastwood as William Munny: "It's a hell of a thing, killin' a man...you take away all he's got, and all he ever will have."

The point having nothing to do with coming to grips with one's own mortality, but the emotional consequences of causing someone else's, if one has any compassion at all. Do you have compassion for yourself, Albert?


{Of Death}:
Given. I know about death, and do not trivialize about it. My Daddy has been dead for almost sixteen years, and I love him so. You know all that sappy tear-jerker movie stuff about how you wished you had listened more to him, and all? They wrote all that stuff about me and my Daddy. He was the wisest, most common-sense person I have ever known. As an aside, he had no use for preachers, and how he tolerated me when I was "up on the mountain" and trying to save his soul is beyond me.

In that same year that he died, a good friend of mine was killed in a trucking accident, just trying to make a living. It was December, and he was in north Arkansas, and at the truck stop he acccidentally locked his keys in his truck. It took so long to get back into it that he would have been late making his load, so he asked directions for some faster route than the one he usually used (he hadn't been driving the route long). Somebody told him Hwy. 7, which is the scenic route through the Ozarks, but he didn't know that and apparently didn't look at a map. He should have, because due to the weather and his unfamiliarity with the road and his trying to keep a job, he went off the side of a goddamned mountain. At the funeral, his Assembly of God momma said, looking down at him, "I just know He called out to God, and now God's given me one more chance to see him." It was at that moment that I decided that I will be cremated when I die. They dressed his (swollen enough that it didn't look like him at all) body in one of those damned 70's v-neck sweater vests, with a dress shirt and one of those three inch wide, thick polyester ties.

The point is that Death is a fact of life, but life is for living, while we know we have it here, and precious, in front of us, Albert.

There can be no right or wrong response to the unknown, as long as the responses do not entail involving others against their will. But not one person alive can tell me, or you, truthfully, any more about it than we can them.

I hope I have responded to your satisfaction.

I ain't, you just think I am...

Some of mine are. They just don't fit your definition of religious.

That's your religion.

Sez you.

Not me. I know I'm going to die, so I've got better things to do. But I hope there you'll find some joy.

Face up to the existence of the living instead of just the dying and what you think comes after. What do you really think is harder, man? And I am not ignoring death; I am choosing not to dread it.

Loveya LoveYa "Bertie"--Peace, but no you-know-what Barry