Stephen T-B

I think there’s a difference between “belief” and “assumption.”

Empirical evidence supports the assumption that fairies do not exist.
Thinking that they do is irrational, and therefore qualifies as a belief.
In other words, belief exists in the absence - or contradiction - of empirical evidence.

Empirical evidence tells us gods are no more likely to exist than fairies. We may assume, therefore, that they don’t.
We may, however, believe that they do.

Starboy

I think some of this controversy may be due to the ambiguity of language and the different uses and meanings by each individual. When I use the word believe it is bordering on knowing. In other words I have very strong reasons for saying that I believe in something. Most of the time I will not use the word believe, but will say something like, there is a great deal of evidence to support… or current understanding is …. or some other statement that lends a basis to the belief. On matters that I know little about because of my own ignorance or ignorance of the human race in general, I do not feel compelled to make belief statements. I don’t see anything wrong with admitting ignorance when you just don’t have much to go on. I have noticed that many people don’t think this way. They seem to feel that on some issues a decision must be made now, even if there is inadequate information to make such a decision. So as an adult when I say that I lack belief I am saying I do not know if there is a god one way or the other and there is no adequate evidence available to me that causes me to believe one way or the other. Now when it comes to the god of a specific religion like Christianity I do believe such a god does not exist. That it is a cultural fabrication.

Starboy

Beetle

It seems that a person's take on whether atheism is a "belief" is largely dependent on how one defines belief. The people who feel that using "belief" implies a level of wishy-washiness reject it, and those who don't share that opinion don't seem to have a problem with it.

Walross

I voted no. In my way of thinking, even strong atheism is more of a conclusion than a belief. But as others have pointed out, it pretty much just comes down to semantics.

Totalitarianist, you wrote:

Does your friend have sources to back himself up?

Walross

Mageth

I voted "no", because I define atheism as lack of belief in god(s), but, in the end, what difference does it really make if one considers atheism a "belief" or not? Some theists and others go on and on insisting atheism is a "belief", but I never quite get what their point is.

Now, where the shit hits the fan for me is when someone starts labeling atheism a religion.

Goliath

Felstorm,

Incorrect. Faith is a belief held either in the absence of evidence or in contradiction of evidence. I can honestly say that I live my life with no faith whatsoever.

Sincerely,

Goliath

hinduwoman

Is lack of belief and belief the same thing?
Maybe he is trying to say that since we base our atheism on evidence/lack of evidence and rational argument, our belief that only such evidence matters is also a belief?

Goliath

hinduwoman,

By definition, they are not.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Soul Invictus

I voted atheism is a belief, and unlike your friend, I'll concede the argument if your refutation is sound enough

With that said, tell me what you think about it relative to my understanding. It's all about perception. Really, only factual evidence can prove or disprove our going assertions or beliefs (let's not get into the analyzing the data/evidence issue!!!)

By definition atheism is a lack of a belief in a God.
Turned around, atheism is can also be phrased as a belief in the non-existence of God.

Unless God were to manifest him/her/it self unto man, we all have no evidence to refute the others' claim, so it is my contention that atheists have judged that with the lack of evidence that there is no God. The reason why atheists can't know there is no God is because there is no agreed upon criteria as to what/who God is nor is there any substantive, tangible [emphasis added] proof for either party. So atheists could no better prove with empirical, factual, tangible evidence that there is no God, than the theists who adamantly insist that God exists.

Goliath

Soul Invictus,

Well...almost. Atheism, by definition, is the lack of belief of the existence of any gods.

Absolutely incorrect. I am a living counterexample, in that I do not believe that any gods exist, and I do not believe that all gods do not exist.

Sincerely,

Goliath