Freethought & Rationalism Archive

yguy · 07-21-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rick
A loaded question, at best, because while the RCC didn't honor him, other groups and even another church did. Yguy attempted to implicitly defame the gay rights movement with his post, but if the lauding of Mr Hay's damns those that do so, it also damns these others.

http://www.signorile.com/articles/advonyt.html

Even op-ed columnist and former Times executive editor A.M. "Abe" Rosenthal, long reviled by many gays and lesbians as the most homophobic force at the Times, went through a surprising transformation.

<snip>

To the astute lesbian and gay reader, it was all very clear: Something had happened at the New York Times.

That's one way of putting it.

http://www.mccny.org/

Metropolitan Community Church of New York provides a spiritual home for the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender communities <snip>

Not satisfied with the fact that there is depth to the idea that some homosexual activists are in complicity with advocates for pedophilia, if only by acquiesence, Dr Rick seems determined to add breadth to that idea as well.

Autonemesis · 07-21-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
I know that, and that's the problem. Could they have found a way NOT to march?

Thus your true agenda is revealed: you'd rather the gays go back in the closet. That's really what bothers you, that they didn't stay home.

Thank you for being honest, at last.

Autonemesis · 07-21-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
That there are people in the homosexual rights movement who lack the moral courage to distance themselves from pedophilia, thus allowing its proponents to use the movement in parasitic fashion to further its cause.

How is NAMBLA's cause furthered? Are they less despised than they were before the march you're all hot and bothered about took place? I think not. If anything, allowing NAMBLA to march was its own punishment. It didn't help NAMBLA, and it may have only hurt the NYC march. As far as you are concerned, that's all it did. So what's the worry, yguy? This non-problem has already self-corrected. NAMBLA has been refused a place in every gay pride parade since then, and gained nothing from the one they did manage to get a place in.

Where's the beef?

Calzaer · 07-21-2003, 04:17 PM

yguy:

Quote:

Produce the quote, please.

{deleted-AV} You made the quote just SIX POSTS before asking me to produce it. You don't even have to SCROLL UP to see it. But you're going to pretend we're all too stupid to notice.

Here's your quote{deleted-AV}

Quote:

Could it just possibly be that the leaders of such organizations have seen fit to keep their ties to NAMBLA a secret from the membership?
Tangentially interesting is the fact that David Tseng, recently appointed head of PFLAG, had this to say about Mr. Hay's death...

Amen-Moses · 07-21-2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rick
Yes, AM, Hays was an outspoken supporter of NAMBLA, a fact which drew him many critics within the gay-rights community. He was also an ardent communist, but hopefully even yguy won't immedicately leap to the conclusion that all communists support pedophilia.

But did he ever show support for pedophilia?

An analogy I could draw would be between a christian organisation and the KKK, one can be supportive of one without being supportive of the other. Within NAMBLA there is a far out fraternity who are definitely pedophilic in nature but they are a minority, in the main the thrust is aimed at post pubescent emergent homosexuals. In this perspective I can see Hays being supportive of their aims but without further evidence I can't imagine he would be supportive of the pedophilic fraternity.

Amen-Moses

AquaVita · 07-21-2003, 05:19 PM

Calzaer, please keep in mind the IIDB rules and polcies. Please also remember that we have additional guidelines here in the MF&P forum which includes the following:

Quote:

Calling a fellow poster a liar, deceitful, or a similar accusation, is not acceptable, even if you believe that your fellow poster really is a liar or deceitful. This kind of accusation never furthers the debate. The only acceptable response to what appears to be a lie from a fellow poster is to present evidence or argument to contradict what your fellow poster has said.

Thanks for your attention.

Aqua-MF&P mod

Calzaer · 07-21-2003, 05:31 PM

I'm sorry, I missed that one. It won't happen again.

Autonemesis · 07-21-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
For those to whom this is not apparent, it would perhaps be helpful to ask when the RCC ever conferred any honors on an outspoken supporter of NAMBLA.

No, you're right - you have a point here. The RCC protect child molestors from prosecution quietly, and place them in positions where they can molest more children without anyone being the wiser, but quietly. They do not make a fuss out of this and certainly do not hand out awards, probably because they realize their congregations wouldn't like it.

So I agree with you, that comparing those who have praised Harry Hay to the RCC is outrageously inappropriate. Harry Hay merely expressed an opinion. The RCC aided and abetted child molestors. There is no comparison.

yguy · 07-21-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses
But did he ever show support for pedophilia?

An analogy I could draw would be between a christian organisation and the KKK, one can be supportive of one without being supportive of the other. Within NAMBLA there is a far out fraternity who are definitely pedophilic in nature but they are a minority, in the main the thrust is aimed at post pubescent emergent homosexuals. In this perspective I can see Hays being supportive of their aims but without further evidence I can't imagine he would be supportive of the pedophilic fraternity.

Amen-Moses

http://www.nambla1.de/welcome.htm

"NAMBLA is strongly opposed to age-of-consent laws and all other restrictions which deny men and boys the full enjoyment of their bodies and control over their own lives."

Here's your chance to move up in class from camel-swallowing to whale-swallowing. No guts no glory.

yguy · 07-21-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
How is NAMBLA's cause furthered? Are they less despised than they were before the march you're all hot and bothered about took place? I think not.

That is not necessarily a sign of disempowerment. Homosexual activists have acted despicably at times - most notably by villifying Randy Shilts for advocating closure of SF bathhouses when the AIDS outbreak happened in the early 80's - yet their power in the media is absurdly disproportionate to their representation in society at large.

Quote:

If anything, allowing NAMBLA to march was its own punishment. It didn't help NAMBLA, and it may have only hurt the NYC march. As far as you are concerned, that's all it did. So what's the worry, yguy? This non-problem has already self-corrected.

Hey, if you're content to see your own movement self-destruct, it's no skin off my asparagus - as long as that movement doesn't try to blackmail straight America as NAMBLA seems to have blackmailed it.

Quote:

NAMBLA has been refused a place in every gay pride parade since then,

Since when? If you read the article by Dane Hall I posted earlier, you know that he talks about their appearance at the NYC parade almost as if they're the weird uncle nobody likes who neverthless shows up every Thanksgiving.

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07-21-2003, 05:31 PM	#327
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	I'm sorry, I missed that one. It won't happen again.

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