Wyz_sub10

I don't mean to sound patronizing, but I think this is a really brave course of action.

I must say that doing the above moved me away from religion. If it confirms things for you, then so be it. But I admire your courage in trying to make sense of the world around you, recognizing that it will likely challenge your current position, for "better" or "worse".

onceuponapriori

I appreciate the kind words, Wyz. I sincerely hope that your journey will bring you to the truth, whatever we might each believe that truth be.

Mageth

Originally posted by onceuponapriori:
I'm in the process of learning as much as I can, about as much as I can. Perhaps after studying evolution, physics, philosophy, etc for a long period of time, I'll become convinced that my current belief was invalid. Somehow I doubt it, though, as it seems that the more I learn, the more sure of God's existence I become.

Thanks for listening.

I agree with Wyz on this - a brave course of action.

I respect anyone, theist or otherwise, who isn't afraid to study and learn from sources that challenge their beliefs and to question even their most centrally-held belefs.

malookiemaloo

I started up a thread on atheists and evidence unaware of this thread.

I'm browsing it now and would comment on what you say as follows (maybe someone else has sais the same thing, I haven't looked yet.)

It is an old Christian adage that Calvin was not as calvinistic as he is sometimes made out. Calvin was very comfortable with the idea of letting someone choose God or not.

The major problem with what you have said for me is that you have removed all responsibility from yourself.

Yes, I know that sometimes it is very difficult to reconcile God's sovereignity with Man's responsibility but you can't just abrogate all responsibility to the Almighty.

From the responses I have had on my own thread, it would appear that evidence does not lead to belief, which I thought it would.


best,


m

fishbulb

Saying that a thought exists is like saying that a hockey game exists or a walk in the park exists. It's a little odd to think of events as though they were physical things. A hockey game doesn't exist; it happens. It happens when a bunch of players skate around an ice rink and pass a puck around in an attempt to score on the opposing team's net. When the game is over, it doesn't disappear or cease to exist, it just stops happening. You wouldn't say that a hockey game existed last night for a few hours, and was even caught on tape, but it was destroyed and ceased to exist around 10 P.M. Rather, you would say that a hockey game was played last night, but now it is over. Likewise, a thought happens when electrochemical activity occurs within the brain, activating certain neural pathways. It happens and then it is over.

You can't create a thought any more than you can create a walk in the park, but the brain can cause one to happen.

fishbulb

By "make sense of the origin of the Universe," do you mean discover why the universe was created as it is, or discover how the Universe came into existence without a creator?

If the former, your entire reasoning is circular, because if you discovered why the universe was created, you would of course discover that it was created, which would mean that there is, in fact, a creator. It is hard to understand how learning why the creator created the universe would cause you to stop believing in a creator.

If the later, why must you assume that your inability to understand how the Universe came to be implies that it was created? Are you really so wise and knowledgeable that your inability to explain how the Universe came about naturally means that it didn't? Why is accepting that you just don't know not an option?

Other people have reported numerous personal experiences with different gods. How do you explain the fact that others have had personal experiences with gods different from yours? Do you think that many different gods exist, and that each god chooses to reveal itself to different people? Do you think that everyone who reports a personal experience with a god other than the one you believe in is lying? Or do you believe they are deluded? If so, then what makes you think that they are deluded but that you are not?

For example?