Sol

The solution to the day care dilemma sounds like a good fit for this family. It's good to know that things have improved somewhat, here's hoping the trend continues. Raising a child is an awesome responsibility.

yguy

The best mother - like the best carpenter, the best teacher, or the best artist - is the one who loves the job.

brighid

Many working mothers love being mothers and therefore qualify quite aptly as being the "best mother." A working mother doesn't love her role as mother any less simply because she chooses, or is forced to work. It can be argued that some working mothers love their role even more because she works outside the home.

Brighid

yguy

Well then, I guess a single mom who sees her kid for one hour a month because she's so happy running a corporation qualifies as a good mother. Hell, why does she even have to see the kid at all?

brighid

But you didn't say anything about the amount of time one spent with the children, but that one must "love" the job in order to be considered the "best." This mother may very well "love" her role as mother so I am afraid you are going to have to give some better criteria.

Now does a "traditional" father who only spends one hour a month with his wife and children because he is busy running a corporation love his children and spouse any less because of it?

Is is possible for you to use something other then hyperbole in attempting to support your case?

As a formerly single mother, even working and going to school full-time I saw my son more then one hour a month

Dang ... a single mother running a corporation? Where?

Brighid

yguy

If you can redefine the job to include work away from home which necessitates farming out the care which was previously almost exclusively the domain of mothers, why can't you redefine it to where ALL of that care is farmed out?

Does an Stephen King sub out any part of his work? No, because his heart is in it, and he won't trust it to others.

I should think so, generally speaking, if the children are young.

I don't see anything hyperbolic about it. I'm merely making logical extrapolations from what appears to be your position.

I imagine Madonna owns a corporation or two.

brighid

Well, prior to the Christianization children were, as you put it, "farmed out" to others in the "tribe." Our tribes are simply much bigger now. Furthermore the archaic woman could and needed to be at home because of the rigorous labors of running a home before modernization, specifically given the isolation of early American life (think pioneers.) She was also forced into this role by religious and social restrictions that have little basis in reality, but were meant as restrictive controls to maintain autonomy over the female and not necessarily for the betterment of children.

Parallels between the antique/archaic women who had no choice and the modern woman whose world is far different cannot be made. There is little, to no indication that this sort of parenting is better, or worse for a modern child. So when are you going to put forth your proof and give up with the unfounded assertations?

Whether you like it or not, there is no reason why any individual woman SHOULD stay home for the totality of her childs adolescence and given the different requirements and demands of modern life a strong case has been made that it is beneficial to both child, mother and family that she have some form of employment outside of the home.

Oh and I don't think one can compare Madonna to the average single-mother, although you do know that Madonna is no longer a single mother? If only more single mothers had the opportunities and financial resources she has!!

Brighid

yguy

That was of necessity, not so the mother could feel more self-fulfilled.

Spare me the moldy, threadbare feminist clichés, if you don't mind.

I guess indications are in the eye of the observer, aren't they? To you, pre-teens engaging in promiscuous sex, gender confusion and the like are no big deal. To me, they are the elephant in the living room.

There is no proving anything in such discussions as this on a BB, there is only presenting evidence. I have done so.

You didn't ask for an average single mother who ran a corporation. The idea is practically oxymoronic anyway.

And you still haven't told me why, by your reasoning, a mom can't be said to be doing the job of mothering by working outside the home and seeing the kid only an hour a month.

brighid

Excuse me? Would you care to back your assertations with actual quotes from me?


There is no necessity for it now and a necessity for women to work outside of the home. Is a mother suppose to give up any sense of self-fulfillment because she is a mother? Why not the father?

When you spare me the misogynist, arcchaic, out-dated, unsupported theories about gender roles I will glady cease

Where? On this thread?? Surely, you jest! You have provided no such thing resembling the definition of evidence. I would suggest review its defintion and attempting to reconcile that with the "information" you allege to have presented in this discussion.

You are right... I haven't but we weren't talking about the job of mothering, nor was that question (prior to this moment) presented. We were discussing your "love" criteria being what defined the "best" mother. I know of not a single working, or single mother that spends only ONE hour a month with her child. Perhaps you could provide some actual examples (you know, evidence) of this before we discuss more of your hyperbolic nonesense.

Brighid

yguy

Forgive me for being imprecise. What I meant was that you don't see the causal link that I do between such things and the gradual disintegration of the traditional family, specifically with respect to parent-child bonding.

Ideally they both give whatever selfish desires they have the lowest priority. Not that they shouldn't have any, just that the needs of the kids come first. As an extreme example, they don't have sex in front of the kids.

Oh. Well in that case, keep'em coming.

ev·i·dence n.
A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment

The definition is necessarily redolent with subjectivity, as nothing presented as evidence to one who is determined to cling to his POV will be seen as helpful by him. Judges/juries are supposed to be arbiters of such things in courtrooms. We are without that luxury, so to claim that such and such is or is not evidence has no more authority than does the person making the claim.

I don't know of any, but it's utterly beside the point, which is that your definition of the job of motherhood can logically be extended to mean that a woman who almost never sees the kid is engaged in it. In fact, you can argue that, since such a woman is more "self-fulfilled", that hour a month of "quality time" is worth 24 hours a day from a bored SAHM.