Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by moon
This is a muddle. Who are you speaking of when you say the "Cuban people"? In fact, the peasants and workers of Cuba--that is, the vast majority--have repeatedly shown their desire to maintain the gains won in the 1959 revolution and subsequent socialization of the means of production.

When have they had any way of showing this?!

Me and Me

Once again the Capitalists have to make a (communism has killled alot of people) different topic.

Someone mentioned Castro and him being a dictator. What is wrong with being a dictator if your purpose and goals are to benefit the majority of the population, the workers?

B. H. Manners

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Originally posted by B. H. Manners
1. If you are a capitalist, what would communism have to do in order to make you willing to support it, or at least neutralize any personal opposition you have towards it?

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I am not a capitalist per say but communism and socialism suffers primarily from the defect that it cannot be implemented and maintained without force.

DC

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BH-

Someone brought this up but I want to expand it a little more. Back in the late 18th Century and most of the 19th Century, didn't the bourgeoisie overthrow absolute monarchs and install liberal governments in their place precisely because the monarch's policies conflicted with the self interests of the bourgeoisie?

I am thinking of the overthrow of King Charles of France back in 1830, the American revolution, the later overthrow of Louis Phillipe in 1848. The fear of possible bourgeoise revolution also led to the curbing of monarchial power in places like Great Britain, Prussia, and others and increased the powers of Parliaments.

B. H. Manners

You're the very definition of an armchair communist. You wouldn't survive a month in Cuba, having to scrape by the way thousands of Cubans do. I'd tell you to go to Cuba and see things for yourself, but it's obvious that you're as blind as a creationist fundie when faced with facts that contradict their own worldview. So it wouldn't do you any good.


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BH-

I am interested in going to Cuba and seeing it firsthand. Is that still possible?

Me and Me

Cjack

Are you implying that elections are a HUGE part of what makes a democracy, or that it is the demarcation line of what is and isn't a democratic rulership?

Would it be better if the U.S. supreme court chose Cuba's president? hahaha (come on I had to.)

Me and Me

B. H. Manners

Your post was a joke right?

Communism can't be maintained without force?

The U.S. more than any other country in the past century, invaded more and forced more people to adopt it's system.


Capitalism is so good that you have to starve people into adopting it, or invade their country and force people into accepting ti.

A capitalist complaining about using force to maintain a system is like Charles Manson complaining about violence on TV.

And no you can't go to Cuba because the U.S. does not allow travel to Cuba. Cuba doesn't bar americans from visiting though.

B. H. Manners

Which post do you think was a joke Me and Me?

B. H. Manners

I think that those who support capitalism do so because they think they are doing well in it or believe they will later on. Those who support socialism/communism do so because they feel it is in their best interests to do so. Really, everyone is just looking out for what they think is in their best interests.


What I am trying to determine is whether I should be a capitalist supporter or a socialist supporter.

Grad Student Humanist

I don't know. Unlike the communist propagandists on the board, I have been to Cuba seven times between 1979 and 1994. Since my parents are Cuban and I have family there I believe they make a special allowance for me to go. However, I know many American citizens visit Cuba by going through another country like Mexico first.

I encourage you to go and witness first hand how people there really live. The communists on this board talk a good game but they wouldn't last a month there.

Grad Student Humanist

If his goal is to benefit the people and the workers, why does he live like a king while the workers starve? Why does he get to decide who has a right to speak and who doesn't? Why does he get to indulge his every whim while throwing people in jail for being homosexuals? Why does he live in palaces while the avergae Cuban citizen can't even own a house or a car?

You're some communist all right, bending over backwards in an insane attempt at justifying a dictatorship which runs counter to the very ideals you claim to cherish.

When are you and Moon going to get out from behind your monitor screens and actually do something to help the workers you talk so much about? The revolution isn't on the internet.