Freethought & Rationalism Archive

WJ · 03-21-2002, 01:18 PM

darkbronze,

With all due respect, since you had to answer his question with another question, this proves the point that Atheism is just another religion?

1. Religion is a method to objectify a belief in some supernatural Being.
2. An assertion about that same Being that the theist and atheist postulate is based on knowledge of Religious beliefs.
3.Therefore, religion is another ?

Walrus
----------
Atheism is just another Religion

Atticus_Finch · 03-21-2002, 01:26 PM

Quote:

The idea of causality appears nowhere in the definition of logic. There is absolutely nothing logically contradictory about the denial of causality. It appears--even under modal logic--that at best causality is very useful ontological assumption to explain this particular actual world. But there is nothing in (modal) logic itself to deny that there are possible worlds where uncaused events happen, or where causality is not bound to spacetime.

Non causality is merely contradictory to the assumption of causality. But there is no real need to assume causality; one can conclude it from evidential arguments, in which case it is purely a posteriori (although indirect) and conditional.[/QB]

First, as to a number of persons' assertion that I have not responded to each argument made in response to my posts: GUILTY. While I find this all extremely interesting I am also trying to make a living and can not respond to everyone of them. If I am expected to respond to everyone of them I will cease and desist. WJ also responded to some of them and therefore I did not feel it was necessary to say "Me to." (FYI, while I appreciate WJ and his views, I do not agree with everything he/she has posted).

Second, I freely admit that my definition of "atheism" may not comport with other peoples. That is why I found it important to define the term early on. I had a rather simple purpose from the beginning. I have found in my discussions with many atheists that they will not even accept that the existence of god is possible. I find that there is no point in going on if you can not get past that point. Therefore, that is where I begin.

In response to Malaclypse, I did not assert that causality is necessary to logic. I asserted that is illogical to deny a possible cause when you can not positively assert what the actual cause is or that a cause is in fact not necessary.

MOJO-JOJO · 03-21-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus_Finch:
GUILTY. While I find this all extremely interesting I am also trying to make a living and can not respond to everyone of them.

Sorry...not allowed here. Rich Young Ruler Law. "Sell everything you own and come with me." ~~JC

Kvalhion · 03-21-2002, 01:45 PM

Quote:

With all due respect, since you had to answer his question with another question, this proves the point that Atheism is just another religion?

It proves that your question is pointless. Why should we undertake the effort yet again when you will not comply in kind? Why should we provide an answer when you refuse or cannot provide one as well?

This does not show Atheism to be a religion; if you continue to believe that then you have obviously ignored the thorough and common sense definition that most, if not all, atheists subscribe to.

Just because we won't jump through all the illogical hoops you twirl doesn't prove your point, despite your claims.

Kvalhion · 03-21-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

While I find this all extremely interesting I am also trying to make a living and can not respond to everyone of them.

The very fact that you took the time to post this reply shows that you could have at least answered ONE of the points. Would it help if we made a bulleted list? You do not have to respond to every reply, but it is painfully obvious that you are ignoring each of the reoccurring points that each reply brings up.

It's simple, really. If you want to discuss an issue, then discuss it. If you want to assert illogical dogma, then don't pretend it is a discussion. Call it what it is: preaching.

Not Prince Hamlet · 03-21-2002, 01:51 PM

Guys, guys, guys ...

AtticusFinch is baiting you. It's a joke; it's gotta be a joke.

I think he's a sock puppet for another regular.

Jeff

AspenMama · 03-21-2002, 02:06 PM

Mr. Finch,

Can you admit to the possibility of the non-existance of god?

Before you attempt to prove the existance of god to me, you must first prove to me that the Invisible Pink Unicorn does not exist and did not create the univserse.

Next, my required proof that your god does exist, I ask only that you communicate with him (prayer I assume is your preferred method), and request that he appear before me in physical form and do my dishes from last night. Then, I will believe. Go!

03-21-2002, 02:07 PM

WJ,

Quote:

And Atheism is logically inconsistent; as it should be!

The only one who has yet to produce a logical inconsitency in failing to believe in God is no one.

daemon · 03-21-2002, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus_Finch:
In response to Malaclypse, I did not assert that causality is necessary to logic.

Au contraire, mon ami.

Quote:

Logically, all phenomena must have a cause.

First post, second paragraph, second sentence.

Quote:

I asserted that is illogical to deny a possible cause when you can not positively assert what the actual cause is or that a cause is in fact not necessary.

I'm afraid I could find this nowhere in any of your posts, though it may derive from them.

Philosoft · 03-21-2002, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WJ:
darkbronze,

With all due respect, since you had to answer his question with another question, this proves the point that Atheism is just another religion?

I need an emoticon for smacking myself in the head.

Quote:

1. Religion is a method to objectify a belief in some supernatural Being.

Call it an attempt to objectify and I'll agree.

Quote:

2. An assertion about that same Being that the theist and atheist postulate is based on knowledge of Religious beliefs.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong. No matter how many ways you phrase it, acknowledgement of a concept is not a tacit acknowledgement of the existence of the referent of the concept.

Quote:

3.Therefore, religion is another ?

Absolutely. Religion is another question mark.

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03-21-2002, 01:18 PM	#61
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	darkbronze, With all due respect, since you had to answer his question with another question, this proves the point that Atheism is just another religion? 1. Religion is a method to objectify a belief in some supernatural Being. 2. An assertion about that same Being that the theist and atheist postulate is based on knowledge of Religious beliefs. 3.Therefore, religion is another ? Walrus ---------- Atheism is just another Religion

03-21-2002, 01:51 PM	#66
Not Prince Hamlet Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,309	Guys, guys, guys ... AtticusFinch is baiting you. It's a joke; it's gotta be a joke. I think he's a sock puppet for another regular. Jeff

03-21-2002, 02:06 PM	#67
AspenMama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,311	Mr. Finch, Can you admit to the possibility of the non-existance of god? Before you attempt to prove the existance of god to me, you must first prove to me that the Invisible Pink Unicorn does not exist and did not create the univserse. Next, my required proof that your god does exist, I ask only that you communicate with him (prayer I assume is your preferred method), and request that he appear before me in physical form and do my dishes from last night. Then, I will believe. Go!

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