FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB General Discussion Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 09:28 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-30-2003, 01:53 PM   #131
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Until recently, Baghdad
Posts: 1,365
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Calzaer
UMOC, Blixy:

Your "just because" invective isn't convincing anyone. How about some concrete examples? Do you have any concrete examples? Can you share your concrete examples?

Because, honestly, nobody in their right mind is just gonna take your word for it, particularly if you refuse to come out and say anything less vague than "he preaches bullshit". Bullshit like what? Why are you refusing to be specific?
Why Blixy? The only invective I implied is that Jackson is no different than the majority of the countless others in positions of authority, power and influence, regardless of their political persuasion. He is an opportunist, according to the Book, Shakedown. Apparently, he is exploiting the race card for personal gain at the potential expense of widening the gap between white and black race relations.

I posted a review from an African American that read the book. The individual was rather dismayed about Jessie Jackson's lack of character, to say the least. It was that individual's words that were chock full of invective, FYI, so why not take your argument up with them. As far as I'm concerned, it's a foregone conclusion. Jessie Jackson is as much a charlatan as Dubbya, so why use this prop made of balsa wood to bolster your argument concerning racism?
Blixy Sticks is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 06:35 PM   #132
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 270
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by donaldkilroy
This statement in and of itself is racist. It completely ignores the fact that other races (to include African-Americans) can and are just as guilty of racism as any other. Which is the reason why Mr. Jackson, among others (e.g., Al Sharpton, Louis Fharakhan (sp?), etc.), was brought up by those who deemed it necessary to bring it up given the context of the discussion that has taken place in this thread.

Blaming the problems of racism, then or now, only and entirely on any race of Caucasian peoples (i.e., Jews, Irish, Scottish, Dutch, etc.) is not only the wrong answer but it is completely narrow-minded. Moreover, it only serves to weaken your argument, not strengthen it.

donaldkilroy
If, when you say racism, you mean racial prejudice or hard feelings along racial lines, then I suppose I could let you get away with this statement. If, however, you are referring to the practice of systemic economic, educational, and legal oppression based on ethnicity, then you're just silly.
smugg is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:04 PM   #133
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RED DAVE

I'm sure I've read more silly posts but not many. I didn't know that it was Old Jesse that keeps Black people down. But, then again, I didn't know that Black people (and their leadership) were responsible for racism.
Jesse Jackson isn't the *CAUSE* of poverty. What he is is a force keeping blacks in poverty.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:05 PM   #134
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by contracycle
Sorry thats just gross racist apologetics.

How does Jesse Jackson keep people down? I bet this is the old myth that theres no discrimination, really, just people crying in their milk.

In other words, it denies that racism happens or ever heppened; They just made it up. You know, Them.

It is the exact equivalent of holocaust denial.
I've never said there wasn't discrimination. There most certainly was. However, *MOST* of it is a thing of the past.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:06 PM   #135
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by donaldkilroy
If you are interested in learning about Mr. Jackson from a far more researched perspective into his life and the harms he has done not only to his own community but upon America as a whole then I recommend you read Mr. Timmerman's book called Shakedown: Exposing the real Jesse Jackson.
I will definitely second this. Very good book!
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:08 PM   #136
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RED DAVE
I'm no fan of Jesse jackson, but I find the criticism of him being generated by right wingers here on this board to be somewhat hypocritical. If you have specific charges against Jackson, and not just the usual racist gas that you expel, bring them out. Jackson is extremely vulnerable to many charges.

On the other hand, let's hear it for such conservative heroes of the fight against racism as the now moldering Strom Thurmond and Lester Maddox. The right has been the consistent champion of racism throughout history, and if the left hasn't been consistent in its fight against racism, shame on us.

RED DAVE
Read that book! There's *FAR* too much to reproduce in a message.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:11 PM   #137
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RED DAVE
I consider those who spend their waking hours fretting about Jackson et al. without spending about 18 times more time attacking the perpetuators of racism, the White Establishment (ruling class, what have you), are hypocrites.

Earn your credentials in the fight against racism, then you get the right to criticize a very flawed man (who hasn't bombed any civilians lately or shifted a few billion to the wealthy).

RED DAVE
However, I see Jesse Jackson as doing far more harm than any remaining perpetrators of racism. People know to fight racism, but they accept Jesse Jackson's words--thus permitting him to do great harm.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 07-01-2003, 01:07 AM   #138
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,762
Default

Still waiting for a concrete example. Any example will do. Quote it out of that book, if you like. But I really need to see an example before I just go ahead and buy into the "Jesse Jackson is Worse Than a Lynch Mob" campaign.

Loren: HOW is Jesse keeping blacks in poverty?
Calzaer is offline  
Old 07-01-2003, 05:38 AM   #139
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 1,425
Default

Quote:
By preaching bullshit to them.
Now the preaching I'm against. His exposure of racism I'm all for.

Quote:
Of course there was racism and it still happens, to some extent. But the way Jackson et al make every issue to be a racial issue.
Becuase its all sorted out now and everybody is happy and we live in a non-racist world. Sound like Utopianism to me.

Quote:
Take standardized testing. Just because blacks do not score as well as whites that means that tests themselves are racist, right?
Well, that seems the most likely conclusion, yes. Unless there were some indication that a distinct other reason was more likely to explain the phenomenon. Btu given institutionalised racism of recent provenance is a known factor in the American situation, evidence for this NOT being racism would have to be strong.

Quote:
If the windshield murderer had been white and her victim black I am sure either Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would have been there.
Becuase they are eeeeeeevil ambulance chasers. That must be it.

Quote:
No it is not. Speaking of this, race baiters remind me of Uncle Leo in one of Seinfeld episodes, where Leo calls everyone an antisemite.
Just because we say that Jesse and Leo are nuts in their assertions does not mean that discrimination against blacks or the holocaust did not happen.
In which case, it becomes rather absurd to premise a position on the fact that that its been perfectly eradicated and that therefore any attmepts to address its legacy are the domain of "political correctness". But what I was addressing specifically bu this comparison are the attacks aimed at Jackson: he is personally demonised as the purveyor of falshoods, just some would have us believe that the world was conned about the Holocaust.

And the net result is that prevailing racism is legitmised - becuase of course its all history so it can't be happening now. Thus is the blind eye turned.
contracycle is offline  
Old 07-01-2003, 05:42 AM   #140
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 1,425
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by donaldkilroy
[B]This statement in and of itself is racist. It completely ignores the fact that other races (to include African-Americans) can and are just as guilty of racism as any other. Which is the reason why Mr. Jackson, among others (e.g., Al Sharpton, Louis Fharakhan (sp?), etc.), was brought up by those who deemed it necessary to bring it up given the context of the discussion that has taken place in this thread.
Nonsense, it is not racist. It is not a false or malicious attribution of racism to caucasians. The historicla problems that America needs to deal with is white-on-black racism, hardly vice versa, becuase the power relationship is largely one way.

And this is indeed one of the spurious apologisms for racisms that is correctly associated with critics of Jackson et al. and gives clear evidence of the racist motives driving the criticism.

Quote:
Blaming the problems of racism, then or now, only and entirely on any race of Caucasian peoples (i.e., Jews, Irish, Scottish, Dutch, etc.) is not only the wrong answer but it is completely narrow-minded. Moreover, it only serves to weaken your argument, not strengthen it.
Straw man. Racism can and does exist among all people. But the Western states are not an abstract sample of the world, they have their own particular histories and they need to be addressed realistically.
contracycle is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:33 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.