Demigawd

You're right. I apologize for my hot-headed behavior.

Fred

I am comparing God to a car designer. I just did.
We are speaking here about the moral choice of a designer and a car is a result of human thought. Cars exist as a result of the human race. I think comparing a design, with another design on the subject of design is okay.
If we look carefully at the story where God employed his design it seems that God did not complete his job. If He created everything, he must also have created both good and evil. He then would have been aware of Adam and Eve's ignorance. After all, he put it there, just as he created their ability to follow his rules. They were operating within their design parameters, they could not do otherwise. Remember that at this point they had learned nothing.
Would a loving parent throw a child into the world who did not have any knowledge of how to take care of him of herself ? I don't think so. We not only learn for ourselves as infants and children as we go from day to day, we are also taught. Why was God remiss with this, why did he fail his moral responsibility ? They needed a common reference with God in order to understand what good and evil was, or even what was dangerous !
Now seeing as this entire event was built by God and he is all powerful, I really think he should have done a better job. Why would he fail, as he obviously did to instruct as oppossed to order ? Look at the result of his game or experiment, bannishment pain and suffering. Yeah, well done God ! This appraoch reminds me of a plastic model built by a small child. It went together okay but there are gluey fingerprints all over it !

As for responsiblity for ones actions ? This must, if morals are universal, apply to God. Why then has there been no recall ? Obviously there are some serious defects with this creation. If experience alone could enlighten us as a species, why so many wars ? How could a just creature stand to sit idly by and watch his creation destroy itself on such a regular basis ?
That could only occur in the mind of a cruel being, the sort that could envisage endless suffering for some crime against his will and his own sense of self worth, for instance the worship of another deity. This being known as human also seems to be the tool on which the idea of good and evil is practiced. God created Good, he then Created Evil. He then thought that he would add a being to this mix (without first consulting it) and inflict punishment on said creatures ! Why ? Was he bored, or perhaps lonely ?
If we compare his actions to those of a human, we would find an incredibly jealous, needy, clingy, vengeful and selfish human indeed.
To my mind, this character known to us as the Christian God, is far more evil then the likes of Richard III or Adolf Hitler. They were kittens compared to him.

But of course, I rest assured in the knowledge that he is simply a work of fiction.

Fred

"Ah, my children.
You seeth not how important it is at first to instill a good whipping ! A good whipping is its own reward and I reward a good whipping !
See that the first 3 layers of skin are all removed before moving onto the hot irons pressed against the soles of the heretics feet !
Yay, it is written in the book of Cyril "He who goeth without skin and who has burned feet, will not enjoy sand storms and fields of salt ! " The heretics will encounter these very things when I have sent them into eternal torture ! I also have some rather nice slivers of wood, and a good idea of where to stick them !
Although it was I myself who created evil, I feel I must not be held accountable. I am tough and very mighty, if you have learned anything from this life I created, it is that "Might makes right !!"
Don't forget it.
Yours truly, God."

TheUnbeliever

When I was Jewish, we had a name in my synagogue for Messianic Jews.

"Christians."

Infidelettante

quote:Magus55
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Originally posted by mike_decock
That means that they didn't have free will until they ate from that tree. If they didn't have free will before eating, they didn't freely choose to eat. That means they are not morally responsible for eating from the tree.

Thanks for clearing that up, Magus.

-Mike...
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Um wrong, but thanks for twisting my words. I said free will didn't exist without the tree. The tree existed before Adam and Eve were ever created. When God said you can have everything in the garden, except this one tree - Adam and Eve gained Free will because there was now something in the Garden that they could choose whether to obey God and not eat from it, or disobey.
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I take it from this quote Magus that free will was forced on Adam and Eve. How can free will not involve choice and can it be free will if Adam and Eve had no choice at the start. Your God forced humanity into a condition that will result in the damnation of billions. "Gained free will" you make it sound as though they won the lottery instead of spiritual death.

That Christians continue to defend this nonsense is a crime against humanity.

JT

mark9950

If God inspired the Bible,why did he not inspire to write the earth was a sphere in hebrew ball(look in your concordence for the word ball also spin and where it is used see if it applies to the eath).

If God inspired man to write this book he inspired many many errors,lies and untruths with leads to lack of credibility.

Magus55

Maybe because ball is ambiguous and can't be used in that context. Apparently you don't know much about foreign languages. You can't just put any word you want in the sentence. In hebrew, using dure in that context would be gramatically incorrect. It may seem like a good idea in English, but you can't do it in hebrew. And ball is ambiguous - we call a football a ball, yet its clearly not a sphere. A circle is a circle is a circle - its always round - there is no room for ambiguity with that word. You can try to twist it into flat earth if you want - but circle does not mean flat - because, heres a clue for you - the Earth is in fact circular( round).

No, God inspired no errors - your interpretation and poor understanding cause errors.

mike_decock

A circle is by definition a plane (flat):

1. A plane curve everywhere equidistant from a given fixed point, the center.
2. A planar region bounded by a circle.
3. Something, such as a ring, shaped like such a plane curve.
4. A circular course, circuit, or orbit: a satellite's circle around the earth.
5. A traffic circle.
6. A curved section or tier of seats in a theater.
7. A series or process that finishes at its starting point or continuously repeats itself; a cycle.
8. A group of people sharing an interest, activity, or achievement: well-known in artistic circles.
9.A territorial or administrative division, especially of a province, in some European countries.
10. A sphere of influence or interest; domain.
11. Logic. A vicious circle.

-Mike...

Sci_Fidelity

Posted by Magus:


Oh, so rabbits really DO chew their cud- I get it. And the sky is a firmament separating the upper waters from the lower. Funny how satelites and spacecraft have had no problem. And I suppose Adam really named several million species of animal one by one. I could go on but why....

Since you are ignoring me in the flat earth thread, I'll ask here:

You wrote that the bible does not imply a flat earth, and I asked why the flat earth society bases its belief on a strict reading thereof. Well?

Spaz

I always wondered what language that was in, or what the point was when they'd have to be renamed in every other language, oh well.

As for the flat earth, yeah magus, those people are fucking crazy, and the only reason they are is because of the bible. If the bible doesn't imply a flat earth (which it obviously would, seeing as that's what the writers would have thought, but you have to go and mess with it and make it confusing by saying it's inspired by god or something) why would these crazies think the earth is flat?