jkizer

I agree strongly with the "actions over words" sentiment with regard to improving the image of secular people...also, it kind of seems to me as if seeing people who define themselves independently, in a variety of ways (atheist, agnostic, freethinker, metaphysical naturalist, etc.), doing good things would have more impact than if those people all seemed to be "following" the "Bright" way. My reasoning there is that it would better display the point that people don't need dogma, or to be told what they are, etc., in order to behave morally.

And aside from that weak, poorly worded and constructed point, may I also add that I can't even say "I'm a Bright" under my breath, to myself, without feeling very freakin' silly.

Calzaer

As I said before...

MilitantModerate

I have been biting my tongue over the last month or so of threads on this idiotic term, but it can restrain myself no longer:

You "brights" call yourselves what you want; just leave the rest of us secular humanists, atheists, agnostics, heretics, infidels, freethinkers, etc. out of it!

kwigibo

not to be a spoil sport, but i feel the same about that term as well

Vorkosigan

I feel the same way. Definitely formulated by snots without an ounce of political sense. First memes and now this. We here at Infidels who disagree should send an open letter to Dennett and publish it in American Atheists.

Vorkosigan

lunachick

Agreed. An excellent idea, Vorkosigan

It would be a good idea to direct the readers of the letter to the threads here at IIDB that have debated the (non)issue, so that these wankers can read for themselves what a load of rubbish we think it is, and how it totally offends what it is we stand for.


Perhaps those that have the time and the inclination could post draft letters in this thread. I'll start something tomorrow afternoon. (That's if you don't mind a non-American pitching in). I'm sure that between us we can write an excellent letter, drawing on the contributions made in previous threads about this.

Shake

Is that because there are theists who feel that they too are freethinkers? Or is it just the generality of the term? (I know, that's kind of the same question)

pz

Are you volunteering to write a draft? I'd be in favor of this, but someone has to start it.

If you'd rather not, I'd be willing...but it's your idea, I'm not going to steal it.

kwigibo

i think it's even more condescending than 'bright' because there is an intent. To imply that others don't have freedom of thought. I don't think any worldview has a monopoly on freedom of thought, and i think it's unbecoming to suggest that my particular worldview does. I don't like to apply any labels, but i'll tolerate descriptions such as secular, or atheist, because they seperate me from worldviews i am not associated with, but make no judgements on either side, perceived or otherwise.



How about this, write down the most literal description of what these umbrella terms are supposed to cover, use that. it's a 17 word long sentence? good, politicians will think there's more of us.

Viti

I was also thinking about using our new formal debate challenge forum to open this issue up to those that never read the Sec Lifestyle forum (surprisingly many). What do you guys think?