Volker.Doormann

Thank you Toto.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

The Legend of Osiris is one of the most ancient myths in Egypt, and it was central to the ancient Egyptian state religion.

“O my brothers and my sisters, gather around me that I may tell the tale of the Before-Time, of the Golden Age when the gods walked upon the earth with us. Know then that in those ancient days, long before even the grandfather of our Pharaoh's grandfather was born, Osiris the great-grandson of Ra sat upon the throne of the gods , ruling over the living world as Ra did over the gods. He was the first Pharaoh, and his Queen, Isis , was the first Queen. They ruled for many ages together, for the world was still young and Grandmother Death was not as harsh as she is now.
His ways were just and upright, he made sure that Maat remained in balance, that the law was kept. And so Maat smiled upon the world. All peoples praised Osiris and Isis, and peace reigned over all, for this was the Golden Age.
Yet there was trouble. Proud Set, noble Set, the brother of Osiris, he who defended the Sun Boat from Apep the Destroyer, was unsettled in his heart. He coveted the throne of Osiris. He coveted Isis. He coveted the power over the living world and he desired to take it from his brother. In his dark mind he conceived of a plot to kill Osiris and take all from him. He built a box and inscribed it with wicked magic that would chain anyone who entered it from escaping.
Set took the box to the great feast of the gods. He waited until Osiris had made himself drunk on much beer, then challenged Osiris to a contest of strength. Each one in turn would enter the box, and attempt, through sheer strength, to break it open. Osiris, sure in his power yet feeble in mind because of his drink, entered the box. Set quickly poured molten lead into the box. Osiris tried to escape, but the wicked magic held him bound and he died. Set then picked up the box and hurled it into the Nile where it floated away.
Set claimed the throne of Osiris for himself and demanded that Isis be his Queen. None of the other gods dared to stand against him, for he had killed Osiris and could easily do the same to them. Great Ra turned his head aside and mourned, he did not stand against Set.
This was the dark time. Set was everything his brother was not. He was cruel and unkind, caring not for the balance of Maat, or for us, the children of the gods. War divided Egypt, and all was lawless while Set ruled. In vain our people cried to Ra, but his heart was hardened by grief, and he would not listen.
Only Isis, blessed Isis, remembered us. Only she was unafraid of Set. She searched all of the Nile for the box containing her beloved husband. Finally she found it, lodged in a tamarisk bush that had turned into a mighty tree, for the power of Osiris still was in him, though he lay dead. She tore open the box and wept over the lifeless body of Osiris. She carried the box back to Egypt and placed it in the house of the gods. She changed herself into a bird and flew about his body, singing a song of mourning. Then she perched upon him and cast a spell. The spirit of dead Osiris entered her and she did conceive and bear a son whose destiny it would be to avenge his father. She called the child Horus, and hid him on an island far away from the gaze of his uncle Set.

She then went to Thoth, wise Thoth, who knows all secrets, and implored his help. She asked him for magic that could bring Osiris back to life. Thoth, lord of knowledge, who brought himself into being by speaking his name, searched through his magic. He knew that Osiris' spirit had departed his body and was lost. To restore Osiris, Thoth had to remake him so that his spirit would recognize him and rejoin. Thoth and Isis together created the Ritual of Life, that which allows us to live forever when we die. But before Thoth could work the magic, cruel Set discovered them. He stole the body of Osiris and tore it into many pieces, scattering them throughout Egypt. He was sure that Osiris would never be reborn.
Yet Isis would not despair. She implored the help of her sister Nephthys, kind Nephthys, to guide her and help her find the pieces of Osiris. Long did they search, bringing each piece to Thoth that he might work magic upon it. When all the pieces were together, Thoth went to Anubis, lord of the dead. Anubis sewed the pieces back together,washed the entrails of Osiris, embalmed him wrapped him in linen, and cast the Ritual of Life. When Osiris' mouth was opened, his spirit reentered him and he lived again.
Yet nothing that has died, not even a god, may dwell in the land of the living. Osiris went to Duat, the abode of the dead. Anubis yielded the throne to him and he became the lord of the dead. There he stands in judgment over the souls of the dead. He commends the just to the Blessed Land, but the wicked he condemns to be devoured by Ammit.
When Set heard that Osiris lived again he was wroth, but his anger waned, for he knew that Osiris could never return to the land of the living. Without Osiris, Set believed he would sit on the throne of the gods for all time. Yet on his island, Horus, the son of Osiris and Isis, grew to manhood and strength. Set sent many serpents and demons to kill Horus, but he defeated them. When he was ready, his mother Isis gave him great magic to use against Set, and Thoth gave him a magic knife.
Horus sought out Set and challenged him for the throne. Set and Horus fought for many days, but in the end Horus defeated Set and castrated him. But Horus, merciful Horus, would not kill Set, for to spill the blood of his uncle would make him no better than he. Set maintained his claim to the throne, and Horus lay claim himself as the son of Osiris. The gods began to fight amongst another, those who supported Horus and those who supported Set. Banebdjetet leaped into the middle and demanded that the gods end this struggle peacefully or Maat would be imbalanced further. He told the gods to seek the council of Neith. Neith, warlike though wise in council, told them that Horus was the rightful heir to the throne. Horus cast Set into the darkness where he lives to this day.
And so it is that Horus watches over us while we live, and gives guidance to the Pharaoh while he lives, and his father Osiris watches over us in the next life. So it is that the gods are at peace. So it is that Set, wicked Set, eternally strives for revenge, battling Horus at every turn. When Horus wins, Maat is upheld and the world is at peace. When Set wins, the world is in turmoil. But we know that dark times do not last forever, and the bright rays of Horus will shine over us again. In the last days, Horus and Set will fight one last time for the world. Horus will defeat Set forever, and Osiris will be able to return to this world. On that day, the Day of Awakening, all the tombs shall open and the just dead shall live again as we do, and all sorrow shall pass away forever.
Lo, this is my tale. Keep it in your hearts and give it to others, as I gave it to you.”

Osiris is a God. The name for God is ‘El’. The God Osiris is ‘El Osiris’ or ‘El Asar’ or ‘eL AZAR us’.

The figure Toth - symbol of the astrological properties of the planet Mercury (knowledge, speaking) - was taken by John and was exchanged with that figure Jesus. As Toto has mentioned above, one can find the two woman's, the resurrection of God Osiris to life from death through magic and some more elements you find ever in myths about death and life.

There is no much new in this world - the Gospels are no exception.

Volker

Bede

Volker, does this apply to all Lazaruses? What about the one Josephus mentions in War 5:13:7 (IIRC). Is he an El-Asar as well? Also, given Lazarus in GJohn was buried in the Middle East are we surprised that his burial follows Middle East custom? Also, do we have critical editions of the Egyptian stories or are we dependent on the retellings of various flacky characters?

Toto, thanks for the references. McKoy is claiming that the passage in GJohn might be intended to show Jesus is able to resurrect people from the dead and hence he is trumping Horus. In other words, he is polemically claiming Jesus is NOT Horus but better. This is a bit far fetched, but not impossible. What is impossible, of course, is that Jesus is based on Horus and we have another of those weird mythic parallels that the less critical posters to this site get so hung up on.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Volker.Doormann

Bede,

I don’t know about historical meanings. I can recognize symbols and pattern of symbols. I don’t care about the true historic authors of the gospels. Spiritual truth is not to be fixed on persons. He who has the understanding and the knowledge can write text, but it is not the historic person, which is of a meaning. It is ever the recognition (Gnosis) in every present, which is only of a meaning. To follow the truth is to acknowledge, that the plot of the after death scenario of Jesus in the Gospels is an update of the Lazarus story by John and the Lazarus story by John an update of the Osiris myth.

The practice of baptism is an old practice from Hinduism (~1500 B.C.E.) as a symbolic ritual to clean a soul (from a body) in the head of a person, the seat of the soul. It is not the practice, which has any meaning itself. It is only the symbol, which can be understand as a remembering of spiritual truth. It is the truth and the recognizable lack of truth in myths, which is speaking to the soul from symbols. The true label of the Jeans of Jesus does not speaks to the soul. To make Jesus to an idol means, to reject the truth, because the (historical important) person is taken higher than truth.

Nothing in the spiritual meaning of the Gospels does change, if there is no historic person Jesus. Nothing. Fact is, that there are historic Gospels, containing the wonderful teachings of Jesus. But it is not the person, which is of any meaning, it is the teachings itself. To create a personal cult from that Jesus is not of any spiritual value, only he, who is able to follow the thoughts in that gospels can measure the spiritual value of it. Christians must show, that they have grasp the teaching of Jesus, not his bones.

Volker

GakuseiDon

It sounds unlikely. True, Osiris was the Greek form of "Asar" http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/egy-myth.html.

But "Azar" (not "Asar"!) was an existing Hebrew word meaning "help", so Lazarus means "God's help". http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvst...RMSTRHEB58.htm

I'm not sure that the ancient Hebrews were in the habit of adopting foreign God's names for personal names. And as Bede points out, there was more than one Lazarus in the Bible.

The more likely explanation is that it is coincidence, like "Christ" and "Krishna". But if you can find any more evidence to back up your claim, I'd be interested.

Volker.Doormann

I think it is more efficient to take known knowledge to the unknown, as to divide single words in 'Azar' and 'Asar' to illuminate the Jesus figure from the Gospels. If one is not ready to acknowledge simple truth's, he is never ready to acknowledge highest truth. As we can hear always updates of ancient myths, including the same message with other actors, like Noah is an update of Gilgamesh, and the many updates from Lazarus are updates from Osiris, the crucifixion in the Gospels is an update of the hebrew passover, with twelve spiritual elements or figures (disciples/IsraEl), it can be recognized, that it is not of a great proof to be fixed on letters in names but on the related symbols p.e. in the stories of Abram/Sara and/or Isaak/Rebekah. The symbol which has to be known/understand from that myths is the very same, but there are only two names exchanged:

"And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar. And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She [is] my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah. But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou [art but] a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she [is] a man's wife. But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Said he not unto me, She [is] my sister? and she, even she herself said, He [is] my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. Now therefore [/B]restore the man [his] wife[/B]; for he [is] a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore [her] not, know thou that thou shalt surely die , thou, and all that [are] thine. Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid. Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done. And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing? And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God [is] not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. And yet indeed [she is] my sister; she [is] the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This [is] thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He [is] my brother. And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and women servants, and gave [them] unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife. And Abimelech said, Behold, my land [is] before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee. And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand [pieces] of silver: behold, he [is] to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that [are] with thee, and with all [other]: thus she was reproved. So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare [children]. For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife."

"And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: And the men of the place asked [him] of his wife; and he said, She [is] my sister: for he feared to say, [She is] my wife ; lest, [said he], the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah ; because she [was] fair to look upon. And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac [was] sporting with Rebekah his wife. And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she [is] thy wife: and how saidst thou, She [is] my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her. And Abimelech said, [B] What [is] this thou hast done unto us? one of the people might lightly have lien with thy wife, and thou shouldest have brought guiltiness upon us . And Abimelech charged all [his] people, saying, He that toucheth this man or his wife shall surely be put to death. "

One can always change names from Thot to Jesus or from Gilgamesh to Noah or from Abram to Isaak, this does not change the truth in the message to be recognized/known itself.

Christians are showing in general a big lack of readiness to acknowledge simplest truth's and/or simplest faulty messages as faulty. If it is right as it is written by John, 'And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free', then Christians never get free from their bondage of belief, until they are ready to perceive (simplest) truth's as knowledge.

Volker