Tazz10m

John, it's already been indicated, but, just for you, here it is one more time.

The "one truth" is "truth" itself.

Your particular belief system is what is limiting your ability to see.

Your underwear is showing.

The answer you are looking for is already here, you just don't see it. Go back in this thread and find it. What you seek, you shall find... IF you really care to open your mind and look for it. Hand holding only goes so far. At a certain point, you just have to go it alone.

John Page

Hi Y!
There are many minds. There are many truths. What may be true for one mind may not be true for another. How is this idealism?

There is evidence that gamma rays did, but the truth of the existence of gamma rays did not.
Even with a., the dictionary is saying that truth, reality and actuality are all words that refer to the same thing. This is not inconsistent with one's truth being one's reality.
In b., truth is expanded to some notion of universal truth. This doesn't make sense to me because we all believe different things.

Cheers, John

John Page

And, one more time, truth itself is what? True? How can you tell etc.?
And my belief system is what?
Maybe true for you, but false for me.

Your turn.

Cheers, John

John Page

Truth is based on whatever system of telling the truth has been applied, not "itself".
So you say.
What system of proof do you propose?
Truth is something that believes itself?

Tazz:
I'm not trying to prove one of us is wrong and the other right. I'm on my journey of philosophical discovery as much as anyone else and I certainly don't have a monopoly on the truth.

However, I am having difficulty understanding your position in a clear and consistent manner. I need a little more than bon mots in order to respond with more credulity.

Cheers, John

yguy

If there is a reality which is independent of anyone's perception of it, and it is that reality which the dictionary refers to, it is entirely inconsistent with that idea, as it then follows logically that truth is independent of anyone's perception.

But not all the different things we believe are true. If I believe in Allah, and there is no such thing as Allah, that belief is not my truth, but my lie, even though I call it a truth.

Tristan Scott

I disagree. I don't believe that truth and the Truth are the same thing. I don't think that the Truth is always true.

I think the Truth is in the heart of the beholder. If a person is not lying it can be said that he or she is telling the Truth, yet if what they are saying is not a fact, they are not lying, they are simply mistaken.

John Page

What kind of logic are you using here?

The truth is that a human can think that <input any staement whatsoever> is either true or false.

Where is this substance "truth" that you seem to propose is independent of anyone's perception?
Good god! Does this mean that Allah was lying?

Cheers. John

yguy

P1: Truth = reality (by definition a. above)
P2: Reality is independent of anyone's perception of it.

C: Truth is independent of anyone's perception of it.

Where is the flaw?

If you object to P2, it appears your alternative is to believe that reality is dependent on how it is perceived; but people who are spaced out on LSD cannot, in fact, fly, despite their perception to the contrary. The sun did not revolve around the earth because people thought that it did.

Substitute "reality" for "truth" and it seems you have your answer, unless you think there is no substance to reality.

Tazz10m

If what a person is saying is not fact, and they are not lying, and they are simply mistaken, they still may be telling what they believe to be the truth, but yet, what they are telling, and believing, is not the truth about a matter or issue. The truth is whatever it is, whether we see it or know of it or not.

If someone is telling the truth to the best of their knowledge, belief, and understanding, they are speaking truthfully, and speaking the truth to the best of their ability at the moment, but they for sure are not lying.

The truth is always true, regardless of how it is spelled, or which letters are capitalized.

If the truth becomes mixed with elements that are not true, then is no longer 100 percent true/truth, but has become "partially true/partial truth". No different than taking 100 percent pure water and mixing it with something else. It becomes impure.

sophie

Tazz10m,

Truth is a light, and when held out in front, all things can be seen in all directions. That which may be hidden, will soon be revealed, as light gets around.


very poetic but you are using a philosophical basket.


Tristan Scott: Truth is proven by factual evidence, Truth.
However to have factual evidence one must have truth. So if I were to rewrite what you said it would sound like :
Truth is proven by truth.

Now this is not a bad tautlogical statement. To have truth one must have truth. Truth is truth. However the philosopher's problem is uncovering the truth. Mabye we should blame the creator for making truth so difficult to access.