donotworry

Yeah...the statement "God should have done it this way" disproves creationism. Who is living in self-deciet?

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

In other words:

Eating a fruit changes the immune system in future generations, drastically weakening it.

Damn potent fruit. Better hope that Osama Bin Laden doesn't start mixing that in with our apples in the supermarket.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Yes, but the statement,"God has no reason to do it this way other than to confuse humans" does.

CodeMason

Well, if your "adaptation" does not involve the accumulation of beneficial mutations through natural selection, please tell me what its magical mechanism is? Perhaps we have a Lamarckist on our hands.
Please explain to us this other mystery mechanism of yours, that suddenly stops adaptation dead in its tracks after x generations. It is indeed a marvellous mechanism, and has some sort of inbuilt "complexity filter" that prevents things that seem too complex to arise "from chance" to you from actually happening.
What you say? This sentence made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Something only qualifies as evolution if it hasn't been observed? So if we got in some time-travelling device that allowed us to see the whole time span of the planet Earth in a single hour, and we observed, phylum level evolution, it would suddenly stop being called evolution because it had then been directly observed?
That's a lie and I'm pretty sure you know it. Nowhere in the axiom of natural selection and random mutation is the necessity for "nothing to something" or "simplicity to complexity" (whatever that's are supposed to mean).
Give this man a Nobel prize! He has managed to find a fundamental flaw in the very scientific method that all those millions of biologists over the years somehow failed to notice!
What do you mean by "observed"? Do you mean that all things that happened before you were born must be called a "theory" because you never observed them, and only the things that you see can be called a fact?
It simply shows creationists don't even know what the hell they're trying to believe and support. On one hand they mock and ridicule evolution, and on the other they believe and support it?

CodeMason

Obviously you, because you were originally making excuses for your God to do this (reusing the original design template). But I showed this excuse has catastrophic theological consequences. So now you stop making excuses? Surprise surprise.

Oh, but who are we to judge the all-mighty GOD? I mean, just because he deliberately deceived us with mountains of scientific evidence, doesn't mean he's a bad guy!

OrderedChaos

Actually, yes you did say that. You said that disease was caused by the fall, and what is the fall without orginal sin? And for your information, viruses can not I repeat CAN NOT survive outside of the host very long. There is no other way for a virus to reproduce besides to force it's genome into a host cell, hijack it, and force it to make more viruses, none, period. So either viruses lived by infecting organisms before the fall, or they did not live at all, period. And are you so foolish to believe that tapeworms were non-harmful before the fall? Did you know that they do not have a digestive tract of their own? Did you know that the ONLY way they can absorb nutrients is by absorbing already digested food from your intestine? Before the fall how did tape worms live, and what was the use of the hooks at its top end? There are other countless examples of organisms that are specificly built to be parasitic, and have no other way to make thier living besides causing disease in other creatures. So tell me Mr. Scientific *cough* Creationist, what did these things do before the fall?

An immune system so strong that it could beat all disease and bacteria? Then tell me how these pathogens survived at all if they were instantly killed off by our super duper delux immune systems?

Oh, and Mr. Scientific *cough* Creationist, since you are insisting that creationsim is grounded in science, can you back up one thing you have said with scientific evidence? Is the fall observable? Can you test it in a lab? Can you wear it with a hat? Can you test it on a cat? Do you like green eggs and ham?

donotworry

or..."I am as smart as God and I know that there is not other reason to do something that to confuse people. I am simply being a mean and nasty god to see if my people will remaing faithful if I 'stack the evidence agains them'".

WRONG BECAUSE:
1. You are not as smart as good
2. You know nothing about reasons why things are

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Not claiming to be smart as God.
And actually, from all outward appearances, God does seem to be trying to confuse us with that kind of information--not to mention Cephied Variable stars, loads of microfossils, et. al.

And God does seem to want to be mean and nasty by planting all that damned evidence here and there and everywhere.

CodeMason

Wow, you just used the Ultimate Cop-out(tm). No matter how horrible and unjust God makes his Creation, it will always be "good", because we measly humans don't know better.

lpetrich

That's news to me. You ought to tell some of these supposed friends of yours to get into contact with us. I've never heard of any agnostics or atheists who reject evolution, though if there any, they are very likely believers in Erich von Daniken sort of views; EvD believes that humanity came into existence as a result of genetic engineering by extraterrestrial visitors.

But I'd be especially surprised if they believed that the Universe is only 6000 years old.

So donotworry's God can be very negligent.

Pure fairy tale.

That's an enormous archive; why don't you write a detailed blow-by-blow critique of it and put it online somewhere?

Mixing up "descent with modification" with some other stuff.

O donotworry, explain to us why you think that church is so unworthy of respect. And you will be in for a big surprise when you find what church Bishop Spong belongs to.

"I know there is a god, and I hate his guts" -- sheesh.

Seems like yet another sinner-turned-saint fantasy personal history. This account would suggest that he had plenty of opportunity to learn about evolution, which she shows little sign of having done.

[quote]
Scigirl on diabetes as a feast-or-famine adaptation...

donotworry:
Man, some people just don't read (or understand) the other side of arguments do they? Ok...here we go.

When Babylon fell and people were scattered, you got your different groups of people ... . Native tribes just adapted to those circumstances by developing Diabetes (Sickle-cell anemia for below). It has nothing to do with evolution.
[/qote]

Evolution, by any other name, is still evolution. "Descent with modification" -- need I say more?

Also, humanity was scattered over much of our planet long before there was a Babylon.

As if an omnipotent being needs to do that. This is only one of legions of vestigial features; are their purpose to trick people into accepting evolution?

Antibiotic resistance is one kind of beneficial mutation that happens all the time.

Depends on what you count as "proof".

Yes, I have, and they make hairsplitting distinctions so they can have it both ways.

Knee-jerk claims of "Goddidit" do not prove anything.

That itself is intellectual arrogance.

It's essentially claiming that "I'm just following orders, so you have no right to challenge me."