Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Immaculate Deception · 07-15-2003, 02:33 PM

One of the few things in life that I've always been sure of is that I never want to have children. I was lucky enough to find someone who feels the same way.

The biggest problem is that certain persons in our families neither understand nor respect our desire to remain childless. My MIL prays that we'll give her a grandchild and frets to us about it whenever someone else she knows has a baby. ( "OOHHh, god help me, I'm never gonna get a grandchild." ) I am somewhat tired of people making an issue of it, as if there is something wrong with our relationship or with us in order to not want any. I feel as if my family marginalizes me because of it, even though I've been open and honest about my feelings regarding this for the better part of 15 years. At least 15, maybe 20. Since childhood and I'm 31 now.

"You don't want children? Why not?" (I have to justify it, apparently)
"Now it's your turn." (oh, like spin the bottle! how novel.)
"You'll change your mind someday." (yeh right)
"It's different when you have your own." (Gee, I could pawn them off onto you instead?)

Those are my courageous, imaginary responses.

Since my family is religious, I'm beginning to wonder whether or not their xian dogma has an effect on this. When I was very young, when I asked about it, they used to tell me that god gave babies to people whenever he thought the time was right. Could it be that they view childbearing as a woman's purpose and duty? I'm not sure that I want to know whether or not they are that brainwashed. After my brother got married and gained a stepson, my mother pointed out to me that she has x # of grandchildren while her twin sister has this #. (Mom's not winning the contest) Even my best girlfriend, my close confidant, was quite negative when I said I want to get a tubal ligation. Is it possible that by rejecting having a child, they feel that in some way I'm either rejecting or belittling them and their choices? At my previous job, someone actually told a new hire coming to work for me that I "hate" children, which was either an ignorant assumption or a malicious untruth. I didn't know whether to laugh or to be irritated.

Worse yet, I haven't been able to find a doctor who will sterilize me. They are a business and I a customer. What business do they have potentially wreaking havoc in my life by not performing this procedure? What do I have to do, purposefully have 5, 10, 20 abortions before I qualify? Will that make them take me seriously? Apparently using birth control effectively for years doesn't work for them, it's not convincing enough.

I really wish that my husband would get a vasectomy, but I don't feel right about pressuring him to do something that he's not comfortable with. We discussed it two years ago...but I'm getting desperate, maybe I should bring it up again?

ID

DarkBronzePlant · 07-15-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Immaculate Deception

I really wish that my husband would get a vasectomy, but I don't feel right about pressuring him to do something that he's not comfortable with..., maybe I should bring it up again?

ID

Not if you don't want kids...

Seriously, though, what have the doctors said about (not) sterilizing you? I know it's more complicated than a vasectomy is for a guy, but what would their reasoning be?

Immaculate Deception · 07-15-2003, 02:47 PM

My doctor said that she normally doesn't like to perform them unless the individual already has had a child and doesn't want another one. She still recommends birthcontrol at this age. But then, she was pregnant and waddling around herself. Maybe I should be more assertive with her next time?

ID

scigirl · 07-15-2003, 02:50 PM

Wow Immaculate Deception, that's a tough one. Why doesn't the hubby want a vasectomy? I would start there. Or - keep trying to find a doctor that will do the deed for you.

As a side note - I've heard this same story from several women in their late 20's/early 30's, how it was tough to find a doctor to tie their tubes. However I've never heard the same story for a man getting a vasectomy. I wonder if there's been any studies on this issue. .. .

Too bad I don't want to do surgery - I could market myself as the "tubes tied no questions asked" infidel doc, and make a ton of money!

scigirl

ImGod · 07-15-2003, 02:59 PM

I think you should tell them you can't have children, but you think it's your husband so you've been picking up guys in the bars lately trying to get pregnant.

Seriously, I know that pressure you are talking about. We were married 5 years without kids and it was all I heard for 4 years from every family member at every gathering. It sucked more for my brother who finally had to tell everyone they were undergoing fertility treatments so they would stop bringing the sensitive subject up all the time and depressing my sister-in-law. Nothing gives you the warm fuzzy spirit of christmas like having to tell everyone gathered you may be infertile so shutup already.

I never ask questions about the subject, because after 2 kids of my own I can see why someone would not want children. Lucky for my kids, I only think that way 40 percent of the time.

RevDahlia · 07-15-2003, 02:59 PM

I have heard that testimony from a psychiatrist will grease the wheels somewhat for childless women seeking tubals. Perhaps you could find a sympathetic shrink.

It's just scandalous that the medical profession minds the business of grown women like this. It's so dang patronizing.

scigirl · 07-15-2003, 03:03 PM

Poststerilization regret: findings from the United States Collaborative Review of Sterilization.

Highlights to show your PCP:

Quote:

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the cumulative probability of regret after tubal sterilization, and to identify risk factors for regret that are identifiable before sterilization.

RESULTS: The cumulative probability of expressing regret during a follow-up interview within 14 years after tubal sterilization was 20.3% for women aged 30 or younger at the time of sterilization and 5.9% for women over age 30 at sterilization.

For women aged 30 or younger at sterilization, the cumulative probability of regret decreased as time since the birth of the youngest child increased, and was lowest among women who had no previous births (6.3%, 95% CI 3.1, 9.4).

CONCLUSION: Although most women expressed no regret after tubal sterilization, women 30 years of age and younger at the time of sterilization had an increased probability of expressing regret during follow-up interviews within 14 years after the procedure.

Hope that helps

scigirl

Immaculate Deception · 07-15-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scigirl
Wow Immaculate Deception, that's a tough one. Why doesn't the hubby want a vasectomy? I would start there. Or - keep trying to find a doctor that will do the deed for you.

As a side note - I've heard this same story from several women in their late 20's/early 30's, how it was tough to find a doctor to tie their tubes. However I've never heard the same story for a man getting a vasectomy. I wonder if there's been any studies on this issue. .. .

Too bad I don't want to do surgery - I could market myself as the "tubes tied no questions asked" infidel doc, and make a ton of money!

scigirl

Ah, the knife...it strikes fear into his poor little heart. I can sympathize with that, except I also feel that a vasectomy is more reasonable-- costs less in both currency and pain (from what I understand) than would a tubal. But I don't want to be pushy, because it's his choice and I want him to feel 100% certain of it.

And I would have been the first patient to fill your coffer!

ID

Immaculate Deception · 07-15-2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scigirl
Poststerilization regret: findings from the United States Collaborative Review of Sterilization.

Highlights to show your PCP:

Hope that helps

scigirl

Excellent! --thanks so much!!

ID

pz · 07-15-2003, 03:12 PM

I think it's perfectly reasonable that the medical profession has this attitude. I'm assisting in teaching a course in reproductive technology right now, and you wouldn't believe how much demand there is for methods to reverse sterilization procedures. People do change their minds about these things all the time. Then they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to work around something they spent pocket change on 10 years earlier.

It's not as if there is any shortage of simple, inexpensive birth control methods. It's also the case that all anyone has to do is shop around, and for every doctor who has a reasonable reluctance to carry out an invasive and largely irreversible medical procedure, there's probably one who will do it after making you sign about eleventy thousand pieces of legalese to make sure you don't sue her when you turn 40, but it can be done.

07-15-2003, 02:33 PM	#1
Immaculate Deception Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 104	Childfree and irritated One of the few things in life that I've always been sure of is that I never want to have children. I was lucky enough to find someone who feels the same way. The biggest problem is that certain persons in our families neither understand nor respect our desire to remain childless. My MIL prays that we'll give her a grandchild and frets to us about it whenever someone else she knows has a baby. ( "OOHHh, god help me, I'm never gonna get a grandchild." ) I am somewhat tired of people making an issue of it, as if there is something wrong with our relationship or with us in order to not want any. I feel as if my family marginalizes me because of it, even though I've been open and honest about my feelings regarding this for the better part of 15 years. At least 15, maybe 20. Since childhood and I'm 31 now. "You don't want children? Why not?" (I have to justify it, apparently) "Now it's your turn." (oh, like spin the bottle! how novel.) "You'll change your mind someday." (yeh right) "It's different when you have your own." (Gee, I could pawn them off onto you instead?) Those are my courageous, imaginary responses. Since my family is religious, I'm beginning to wonder whether or not their xian dogma has an effect on this. When I was very young, when I asked about it, they used to tell me that god gave babies to people whenever he thought the time was right. Could it be that they view childbearing as a woman's purpose and duty? I'm not sure that I want to know whether or not they are that brainwashed. After my brother got married and gained a stepson, my mother pointed out to me that she has x # of grandchildren while her twin sister has this #. (Mom's not winning the contest) Even my best girlfriend, my close confidant, was quite negative when I said I want to get a tubal ligation. Is it possible that by rejecting having a child, they feel that in some way I'm either rejecting or belittling them and their choices? At my previous job, someone actually told a new hire coming to work for me that I "hate" children, which was either an ignorant assumption or a malicious untruth. I didn't know whether to laugh or to be irritated. Worse yet, I haven't been able to find a doctor who will sterilize me. They are a business and I a customer. What business do they have potentially wreaking havoc in my life by not performing this procedure? What do I have to do, purposefully have 5, 10, 20 abortions before I qualify? Will that make them take me seriously? Apparently using birth control effectively for years doesn't work for them, it's not convincing enough. I really wish that my husband would get a vasectomy, but I don't feel right about pressuring him to do something that he's not comfortable with. We discussed it two years ago...but I'm getting desperate, maybe I should bring it up again? ID

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07-15-2003, 02:47 PM	#3
Immaculate Deception Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 104	My doctor said that she normally doesn't like to perform them unless the individual already has had a child and doesn't want another one. She still recommends birthcontrol at this age. But then, she was pregnant and waddling around herself. Maybe I should be more assertive with her next time? ID

07-15-2003, 02:50 PM	#4
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	Wow Immaculate Deception, that's a tough one. Why doesn't the hubby want a vasectomy? I would start there. Or - keep trying to find a doctor that will do the deed for you. As a side note - I've heard this same story from several women in their late 20's/early 30's, how it was tough to find a doctor to tie their tubes. However I've never heard the same story for a man getting a vasectomy. I wonder if there's been any studies on this issue. .. . Too bad I don't want to do surgery - I could market myself as the "tubes tied no questions asked" infidel doc, and make a ton of money! scigirl

07-15-2003, 02:59 PM	#5
ImGod Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 6,264	I think you should tell them you can't have children, but you think it's your husband so you've been picking up guys in the bars lately trying to get pregnant. Seriously, I know that pressure you are talking about. We were married 5 years without kids and it was all I heard for 4 years from every family member at every gathering. It sucked more for my brother who finally had to tell everyone they were undergoing fertility treatments so they would stop bringing the sensitive subject up all the time and depressing my sister-in-law. Nothing gives you the warm fuzzy spirit of christmas like having to tell everyone gathered you may be infertile so shutup already. I never ask questions about the subject, because after 2 kids of my own I can see why someone would not want children. Lucky for my kids, I only think that way 40 percent of the time.

07-15-2003, 02:59 PM	#6
RevDahlia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 4,930	I have heard that testimony from a psychiatrist will grease the wheels somewhat for childless women seeking tubals. Perhaps you could find a sympathetic shrink. It's just scandalous that the medical profession minds the business of grown women like this. It's so dang patronizing.

07-15-2003, 03:12 PM	#10
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	I think it's perfectly reasonable that the medical profession has this attitude. I'm assisting in teaching a course in reproductive technology right now, and you wouldn't believe how much demand there is for methods to reverse sterilization procedures. People do change their minds about these things all the time. Then they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to work around something they spent pocket change on 10 years earlier. It's not as if there is any shortage of simple, inexpensive birth control methods. It's also the case that all anyone has to do is shop around, and for every doctor who has a reasonable reluctance to carry out an invasive and largely irreversible medical procedure, there's probably one who will do it after making you sign about eleventy thousand pieces of legalese to make sure you don't sue her when you turn 40, but it can be done.

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