Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 04-23-2003, 05:14 AM

DavidH:
Hell is real, the way to avoid hell is real.

Sez you.

Are you going to gamble everything?

(Pascal's Wager snipped because it is pure bullshit)

But since Pascal's Wager is the only thing that DavidH seems to understand, I'll propose Ibn Baskal's Wager:

If you practice Islam and it is true, you will get to live happily in Paradise, where you will inhabit a luxurious garden estate, you will get to wear very nice clothes, you will get to consume very tasty food and drink, you will get some cute boy servants to take care of you, and you will get to hump a harem of houris, ravishingly beautiful ladies. Think of it, DavidH, wouldn't you want to make love to 72 Jennifer Lopez lookalikes?

If you practice Islam and it is false, you will lose absolutely nothing.

Likewise, if you don't practice Islam and it is false, you will also lose absolutely nothing.

But if you don't practice Islam and it is true, you will go to Hell. You will be shackled and chained in place, you will be burned alive with superhot fire, you will get boiling water poured down your throat, you will eat bitter fruits, you will get beaten with hooked rods, etc.

And is this scenario any worse bullshit than the original Pascal's Wager?

I know God is real - the miracles he does confirms it.

Like what?

The prophecy in the Bible confirms it.

Except that the Bible has numerous unfulfilled prophecies. Our site has a whole section on Biblical Errancy; I challenge you to refute it.

He lives in me and I confirm it.

Enjoy that WarmAndFuzzyFantasyFeeling.

NightWatchman · 04-23-2003, 05:14 AM

First of all the bible is a book of symbols, not to be taken literally
"dont be a minister of the letter (literal). for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life. The inner knowledge.
All things which are an allegory, dark sayings etc.
Heaven and hell are states of consciousness, and are not real places.

Proverbs 1524
"a word to the wise above (using your brain), you may depart from hell beneath. (operating from your lower nature)

Quit eating pork
oink oink

Debbie T · 04-23-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55

And why do you think Christians try to bring people to Jesus constantly? Do you think we do it ( well most of us anyway) for the heck of it? Christians constantly preach the Gospel to people to try to bring them to salvation. God wants NO ONE to go to hell, thats why He calls on us to witness to unbelievers.

If all this was true, you would be better off on your knees 24/7 praying to your god to change its mind. You know that you are not going to convince everyone on this earth to believe in your myth and there are going to be many on this earth that won't even know about your god.

If you believe in the power of prayer than why aren't you on your knees begging your god to change its mind about eternal punishment? Or do you think anyone that goes to hell deserves infinite punishment for not believing as you do? And if you do believe someone deserves to be punished what do you think that says about you, when you worship a supposed entity that set the scenario up in the first place?

If your supposed god has the power to do anything and really doesn''t want anyone to go to hell, than it would not send anyone there. Period and end of story.

Godless Dave · 04-23-2003, 09:33 AM

Magus and davidH, you still have not explained why God created Hell.

cpickett · 04-23-2003, 10:02 AM

To send the really bad people of course, it's like the supernatural version of Australia!

I mean, if you go to heaven, you don't want to be bugged by Hitler, bragging about the holocaust, you would much rather have him locked away somewhere, so that you don't have to deal with him...

WWSD · 04-23-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cpickett
To send the really bad people of course, it's like the supernatural version of Australia!

So what does that make me if I want to go to Australia? Satan?

WWSD · 04-23-2003, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
I simply don't believe in Hell.

Now that I can dig. Religion seems so much nicer without hell and the threat of an angry god being grilling people for eternity.

Out of curiosity, what do you think happens in the afterlife, especially to atheists and the like?

Taffer · 04-23-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by davidH
Basically because many are content in their comfort zones - they don't want to place themselves on the line for fear of losing their jobs, being laughed at etc etc.

Since being laughed at or losing a job is piddly compared to the pleasures of heaven, wouldn't you agree that all these people haven't really thought about the ramifications of eternal afterlife in this way?

Selective faith, eh?

Quote:

Though there are many that are striving frantically.

Possibly that is why you find Christians on this site - giving up a lot of time to talk and debate.

I do realize many are frantic. It just seems a bit inconsistent that there are so few who see matters this way and willingly give up everything but their barest needs and devote their lives to conversion.

The atheist explanation is simple. I was wondering how Christians explained this.

Quote:

You must also realise that many millions of people are coming to know God each day - it's just sad that many more don't. Nearly everyone knows what God says - they just ignore it, perhaps preferring 'to gather around them teachers that say what their ears want them to say'.

As the Bible says, 'To the one we are the smell of life, to the other we are the smell of death.'

That wasn't really what I was getting at, but yeah, whatever floats your boat.

Shadowy Man · 04-23-2003, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cpickett
I mean, if you go to heaven, you don't want to be bugged by Hitler, bragging about the holocaust, you would much rather have him locked away somewhere, so that you don't have to deal with him...

You're right. Hitler will be down in Hell with all of those Jews he killed.

Annabel Lee · 04-23-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WWSD
Now that I can dig. Religion seems so much nicer without hell and the threat of an angry god being grilling people for eternity.

Out of curiosity, what do you think happens in the afterlife, especially to atheists and the like?

I'm basically a Universalist in regards to an afterlife.

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04-23-2003, 05:14 AM	#21
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	DavidH: Hell is real, the way to avoid hell is real. Sez you. Are you going to gamble everything? (Pascal's Wager snipped because it is pure bullshit) But since Pascal's Wager is the only thing that DavidH seems to understand, I'll propose Ibn Baskal's Wager: If you practice Islam and it is true, you will get to live happily in Paradise, where you will inhabit a luxurious garden estate, you will get to wear very nice clothes, you will get to consume very tasty food and drink, you will get some cute boy servants to take care of you, and you will get to hump a harem of houris, ravishingly beautiful ladies. Think of it, DavidH, wouldn't you want to make love to 72 Jennifer Lopez lookalikes? If you practice Islam and it is false, you will lose absolutely nothing. Likewise, if you don't practice Islam and it is false, you will also lose absolutely nothing. But if you don't practice Islam and it is true, you will go to Hell. You will be shackled and chained in place, you will be burned alive with superhot fire, you will get boiling water poured down your throat, you will eat bitter fruits, you will get beaten with hooked rods, etc. And is this scenario any worse bullshit than the original Pascal's Wager? I know God is real - the miracles he does confirms it. Like what? The prophecy in the Bible confirms it. Except that the Bible has numerous unfulfilled prophecies. Our site has a whole section on Biblical Errancy; I challenge you to refute it. He lives in me and I confirm it. Enjoy that WarmAndFuzzyFantasyFeeling.

04-23-2003, 05:14 AM	#22
NightWatchman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: California Posts: 97	First of all the bible is a book of symbols, not to be taken literally "dont be a minister of the letter (literal). for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life. The inner knowledge. All things which are an allegory, dark sayings etc. Heaven and hell are states of consciousness, and are not real places. Proverbs 1524 "a word to the wise above (using your brain), you may depart from hell beneath. (operating from your lower nature) Quit eating pork oink oink

04-23-2003, 09:33 AM	#24
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Magus and davidH, you still have not explained why God created Hell.

04-23-2003, 10:02 AM	#25
cpickett Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Arcadia, IN, USA Posts: 308	To send the really bad people of course, it's like the supernatural version of Australia! I mean, if you go to heaven, you don't want to be bugged by Hitler, bragging about the holocaust, you would much rather have him locked away somewhere, so that you don't have to deal with him...

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