Freethought & Rationalism Archive

B. H. Manners · 01-01-2003, 09:57 PM

Have any of you heard anything about a military/Du Pont/fascist attempt to overthrow FDR back in 1934? The plot was supposedly stopped and turned in by Gen. Smedley Butler.

IvanK · 01-02-2003, 10:16 AM

There was a good piece about this in History Today, November 1995. Butler charged that certain Wall St. types, who wanted to retain the gold standard FDR had just nixed, approached him with a plan to lead a sort of Bonus Army redux of a half-million veterans on DC, install a caretaker government and ease FDR out. The alleged plotters denied the charges before a Congressional committee and no further inquiry was undertaken. The main character in the alleged plot suffered an untimely but unsuspicious death from pneumonia, adding fuel to the conspiracy theory fires. Contemporary nutjob theories ran the gamut from a cabal of Jewish financiers (including the du Ponts) and fascists (?!?) to a crock Butler himself cooked up to keep FDR from turning too conservative. FDR Interior Secretary Harold Ickes apparently referenced the incident in a litany of charges against "monopolistic" newspaper chains. Small wonder this has reared its unlovely head again, as it appeals to loonies from all points of the compass, but IMHO the FDR coup angle is a crock. It probably never went beyond a couple individuals of dubious sanity if it even ever amounted to that.

1/3/03: On further review, it seems to me Ickes wanted it both ways with his criticism of contemporary newspaper chains. On the one hand, he apparently wanted more extensive reporting of the alleged plot Butler exposed. But I wonder how he would have reacted to similar attention to the fact that the main rationale allegedly planned for having FDR give up his Presidential duties would have been the state of his health, specifically his paralysis from polio. That particular detail went unreported in many "monopolistic" newspapers for over a dozen years, with the result that many in the U.S. were unaware that the President they elected four times had any serious health problems at all.

RED DAVE · 01-04-2003, 06:41 PM

This coup attempt was actually a seminal event in American history. It was basically covered up because to expose it would have exposed a huge section of the American ruling class. It's well discussed in a book entitled: The Plot to Seize the White House[/. The URL below gives a review. The actual plot reads like something out of a paranoid, left wing fantasy: right wing industrialists, the military, etc. It's amazing that it is so little known. Many of the same pro-fascist businessmen who were involved were pro-Hitler and collaborated with the Nazis, even during WWII.

The Plot to Seize the White House

Se also:

Additional material on the coup

Bush's family was up to its neck in all this. Unfortuantely, the source is tainted, but see Tarply's biography of Bush Sr.

Bio of Bush Sr. .

RED DAVE

IvanK · 01-06-2003, 01:37 PM

If a half-baked "plot" hatched in the mind of a halfwit Wall St. asshole and "exposed" by a doddering retired general was "a seminal event in U.S. history" then so was the stain on Monica's dress. And if you're going to prove a "coverup" to my or any other rational human being's satisfaction you're going to have to come up with better evidence than a review of a tendentious book and the further rantings of more nutjob conspiracy theorists. All one should have to do is note that one of them calls FDR a member of "the same ruling cabal" as the people who allegedly set out to depose him, this soon after he was elected for the first time. Wouldn't you say it could hardly be called convincing evidence of some shadow government that FDR was elected an unprecedented three additional times after that and served as President for nearly 12 more years after the supposed masters of the all-powerful fascist/Jewish/industrialist/Wall Street/military ruling cabal plotted his political demise? Oh, sorry, I guess FDR must have been quietly done away with and replaced by a space alien who proceeded to cover up all the evidence about Bigfoot, the Illuminati, the Goat Sucker, the Holy Grail, Bat-Boy and the lost Ark of the Covenant.

Frankly, I tire. Again.

Daovonnaex · 01-06-2003, 05:23 PM

I read something interesting in the latest issue of Military History about the coup. The article was about USMC Major General Smedley Butler. He was supposed to command an army of 500,000 veterans to force the ouster of FDR, but, being an ardent patriot, he exposed the plot.

B. H. Manners · 01-06-2003, 06:01 PM

IvanK,

I did not mean to offend you by starting this thread. I checked some of the respected historians whose books I have in my personal library (Manchester, ect.) and they all at least mention the attempted coup though in a "gloss over" manner.

HaysooChreesto! · 01-08-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IvanK
the Goat Sucker

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. People who really know what's going on with this real zoological entity refer to it as Chupa Cabre!
You reactionaries...

Barkhorn1x · 01-09-2003, 07:10 AM

One more strike against the PCT crowd.

----

But of course you could be an Agent Provocatuer sent to sow seeds of doubt - all of this could be true! The Bilderberg's, the TriLateral Commission, ZOG - they are behind it all.

The name Roosevelt even sounds Jewish - doesn't it - DOESN'T IT!!! .

In corner of room - sucking thumb,
Barkhorn.

01-01-2003, 09:57 PM	#1
B. H. Manners Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,213	1934 coup attempt against FDR Have any of you heard anything about a military/Du Pont/fascist attempt to overthrow FDR back in 1934? The plot was supposedly stopped and turned in by Gen. Smedley Butler.

01-02-2003, 10:16 AM	#2
IvanK Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 2,016	a plot without plotters? There was a good piece about this in History Today, November 1995. Butler charged that certain Wall St. types, who wanted to retain the gold standard FDR had just nixed, approached him with a plan to lead a sort of Bonus Army redux of a half-million veterans on DC, install a caretaker government and ease FDR out. The alleged plotters denied the charges before a Congressional committee and no further inquiry was undertaken. The main character in the alleged plot suffered an untimely but unsuspicious death from pneumonia, adding fuel to the conspiracy theory fires. Contemporary nutjob theories ran the gamut from a cabal of Jewish financiers (including the du Ponts) and fascists (?!?) to a crock Butler himself cooked up to keep FDR from turning too conservative. FDR Interior Secretary Harold Ickes apparently referenced the incident in a litany of charges against "monopolistic" newspaper chains. Small wonder this has reared its unlovely head again, as it appeals to loonies from all points of the compass, but IMHO the FDR coup angle is a crock. It probably never went beyond a couple individuals of dubious sanity if it even ever amounted to that. 1/3/03: On further review, it seems to me Ickes wanted it both ways with his criticism of contemporary newspaper chains. On the one hand, he apparently wanted more extensive reporting of the alleged plot Butler exposed. But I wonder how he would have reacted to similar attention to the fact that the main rationale allegedly planned for having FDR give up his Presidential duties would have been the state of his health, specifically his paralysis from polio. That particular detail went unreported in many "monopolistic" newspapers for over a dozen years, with the result that many in the U.S. were unaware that the President they elected four times had any serious health problems at all.

01-06-2003, 01:37 PM	#4
IvanK Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 2,016	seminal? hardly If a half-baked "plot" hatched in the mind of a halfwit Wall St. asshole and "exposed" by a doddering retired general was "a seminal event in U.S. history" then so was the stain on Monica's dress. And if you're going to prove a "coverup" to my or any other rational human being's satisfaction you're going to have to come up with better evidence than a review of a tendentious book and the further rantings of more nutjob conspiracy theorists. All one should have to do is note that one of them calls FDR a member of "the same ruling cabal" as the people who allegedly set out to depose him, this soon after he was elected for the first time. Wouldn't you say it could hardly be called convincing evidence of some shadow government that FDR was elected an unprecedented three additional times after that and served as President for nearly 12 more years after the supposed masters of the all-powerful fascist/Jewish/industrialist/Wall Street/military ruling cabal plotted his political demise? Oh, sorry, I guess FDR must have been quietly done away with and replaced by a space alien who proceeded to cover up all the evidence about Bigfoot, the Illuminati, the Goat Sucker, the Holy Grail, Bat-Boy and the lost Ark of the Covenant. Frankly, I tire. Again.

01-09-2003, 07:10 AM	#8
Barkhorn1x Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Davie, FL Posts: 208	Bravo IvanK One more strike against the PCT crowd. ---- But of course you could be an Agent Provocatuer sent to sow seeds of doubt - all of this could be true! The Bilderberg's, the TriLateral Commission, ZOG - they are behind it all. The name Roosevelt even sounds Jewish - doesn't it - DOESN'T IT!!! . In corner of room - sucking thumb, Barkhorn.

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01-04-2003, 06:41 PM	#3
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	This coup attempt was actually a seminal event in American history. It was basically covered up because to expose it would have exposed a huge section of the American ruling class. It's well discussed in a book entitled: The Plot to Seize the White House[/. The URL below gives a review. The actual plot reads like something out of a paranoid, left wing fantasy: right wing industrialists, the military, etc. It's amazing that it is so little known. Many of the same pro-fascist businessmen who were involved were pro-Hitler and collaborated with the Nazis, even during WWII. The Plot to Seize the White House Se also: Additional material on the coup Bush's family was up to its neck in all this. Unfortuantely, the source is tainted, but see Tarply's biography of Bush Sr. Bio of Bush Sr. . RED DAVE

01-06-2003, 05:23 PM	#5
Daovonnaex New Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 3	I read something interesting in the latest issue of Military History about the coup. The article was about USMC Major General Smedley Butler. He was supposed to command an army of 500,000 veterans to force the ouster of FDR, but, being an ardent patriot, he exposed the plot.

01-06-2003, 06:01 PM	#6
B. H. Manners Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,213	IvanK, I did not mean to offend you by starting this thread. I checked some of the respected historians whose books I have in my personal library (Manchester, ect.) and they all at least mention the attempted coup though in a "gloss over" manner.

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