elanah

Trust me, blondegoddess, if the troop your daughter wants to join has any sense at all, they will not turn you away as a volunteer. Volunteers are a dying breed. We need all of them we can get. I can't see how any troop would willingly turn you away because of your atheism.

Never

Quite frankly, however you feel about the Girl Scouts (or whatever organization for that matter) is IMO not appropriate to express to a 9 or 10 year old. My daughter was one of those selling cookies at our grocery store and I don't think she is nearly mature enough (just turned 11) to understand what you said, just know that you rejected and confused her (I assume politely).
Both of my daughters are in Girl Scouts. They (GSs) have never questioned them nor did they question me as a leader for 2 years about our religion (or lack thereof). They have never discussed it at meetings. As far as the pledge goes, I don't like the "God" in it either but I'm not going to let that one thing stop the girls from lots of other activities they enjoy.
I would think an opinion on GS national policies would be better expressed to an adult in some position of authority or a letter to the national organization.

Annabel Lee

Blondegoddess, don't give up. Please, we need you! As Elanah said, volunteers are a dying breed.
Despite the similarity in name the Girl Scouts have absolutely no connection with the Boy Scouts.
I'm a 4th year Girl Scout leader and our troop may have to disband because my co-leader isn't able to continue. I can not get any of the other moms to volunteer for the job.
I don't want this to happen but each troop needs two leaders.
We've been a troop since the girls were in Kindergarten and it's tearing me up to see us end.

The Girl Scouts Need You.

oriecat

I always bought them because they're damn good cookies! Mmmmm, Samoas...

Koyaanisqatsi

Since the reverse is not necessarily true (i.e., that perhaps other more "mainstream" feelings are not only being expressed, but, arguably, reinforced through this organization), don't you think it is more appropriate to raise pertinent issues directly that could effect your 9 or 10 year old?

Not to get into a whole thing over this, but on a "higher" level, why is it ok for the girl scouts to teach one level of belief, but not ok to expose those levels for the hypocrisy they represent (assuming that such an hypocrisy exists, which, agreed, may be in question here)?

In other words, what is "appropriate" for a 9 or 10 year old to know about the organizations they may be involved in and why is a more "mainstream" appropriateness largely unquestioned over a lesser one?

christ-on-a-stick

Hi Never, I can understand your concern, but respectfully disagree. On 2 points;

1) Why is atheism something that is inappropriate to be expressed or for a child to be exposed to at *any* age? I am not one of those (and I'm not saying you are) that believes it is "rude" or "disrespectful" of theist's beliefs to express our *lack* of belief. I don't see religion as a sacred cow that can't be discussed unless you agree with it.

2. As for the sexuality comment, again (I have pretty strong feelings on this issue and perhaps out of the mainstream), I feel that as as long as we treat sexuality (and particularly homosexuality and bisexuality) as something that is "inappropriate" to discuss (as though it is something to be hidden or ashamed of) it encourages stigmatization and unhealthy attitudes about sexuality. *Note: I am not talking about graphic descriptions or conversations, but simply the basic terms of sexuality - why should they be "taboo"? By the age of 9 or 10, kids know what sex is. Why is knowing what homosexuality or bisexuality is inappropriate? To me, that implies that there is something shameful or wrong about it.

How would you feel if it *did* come up, even if you brought it up yourself casually (just as casually as a Christian might mention going to church - say you were talking about going to the Godless Americans March) - and were then unceremoniously kicked out? The organization currently would allow one of their chapters to do just that, and that is what I have a problem with. In another scenario, what if one of your daughters decided (autonomously of you) that they didn't feel right about saying the "God" part of the pledge, and were then kicked out? This too would be allowed to happen and I have a feeling that it would feel like a bigger issue to you in that scenario. Again, I respectfully disagree - I don't think that either of the issues I mentioned to the girl are issues that only "adults" should be aware of or that children need to be protected from.

(FWIW, I am not judging your decision to be a part of the Girl Scouts - I was expressing my personal conviction only. Oh, and I was definitely *not* rude (to the girl) or making a scene about it - I just replied to her in a normal tone of voice. I may be an instigator but I'm always polite about it. )

Never

My apologies on one point. I was not clear when I expressed this:
"Quite frankly, however you feel about the Girl Scouts (or whatever organization for that matter) is IMO not appropriate to express to a 9 or 10 year old"
I did not mean that the subject matter was not appropriate for this age, I meant that it was not appropriate to bring up as a passing comment (or response to a cookie sell query) from a stranger to a child this age.
I haven't discussed the subject of theism or atheism with my children much simply because they are immature. Actually, the 11 year old has discussed it with me a bit. The almost 13 year old is more immature. I had to force her to discuss puberty (had to lay on her and hold her down while I talked) cause she didn't want to hear about it (imagine trying to discuss sexuality at this point). So I guess I'm saying that the parent should decide when to discuss subjects like religion and sexuality not a stranger in the store.

quoting christ on-a-stick
"How would you feel if it *did* come up, even if you brought it up yourself casually (just as casually as a Christian might mention going to church - say you were talking about going to the Godless Americans March) - and were then unceremoniously kicked out? The organization currently would allow one of their chapters to do just that, and that is what I have a problem with. In another scenario, what if one of your daughters decided (autonomously of you) that they didn't feel right about saying the "God" part of the pledge, and were then kicked out? This too would be allowed to happen and I have a feeling that it would feel like a bigger issue to you in that scenario. "

Of course it would be a bigger issue if that occured. I'm not saying I agree with the policies you mentioned or having god in their pledge, just that I'm not going to make an issue of it if they aren't. This is the only activity the 13 year old has asked to participate in and she needs to get out.

quoting christ on-a-stick
"Again, I respectfully disagree - I don't think that either of the issues I mentioned to the girl are issues that only "adults" should be aware of or that children need to be protected from."

I'll respectfully disagree also as I think the children are not there to play politics. Only the adults can change those policies.

As an aside, I was a Girl Scout for 10 years and it had no influence whatsoever on my opinion of religion. I don't remember it having anything to do with it. I just learned to camp and sew and bowl and canoe and knit, etc. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.

The Other Michael

The important thing is that their cookies aren't worth eating.

And those wretched giant milk-chocolate bars that other school-kid organizations sell for fund raising are even worse.

Don't encourage them in their efforts to peddle cheap and nasty foodstuffs for inflated prices.

cheers,
Michael

mjennyt

I am a life member of the Girl Scouts. At least at my council (city) level there is NO discrimination regarding sexual or religious preferences. I have openly stated that I am an atheist at meetings multiple times and never gotten a complaint. I abstain from Grace (a traditional GS blessing before eating) and I don't say the word "God" in the GS Pledge.

Please don't punish the Girl Scouts for errors that the Boy Scouts have made. Many people within the Girl Scout organization don't approve of the way BSA has been acting either.

In my opinion the Girl Scouts are light years ahead of the Boy Scouts not only in acceptance but also in regards to their programs they offer girls. I am a much move well-rounded and confident person because I grew up involved in Girl Scouting.

I confess that I don't know the exact policies of GSUSA or my Council, however I will make a point of finding out and I will post them here.

Personally I like the cookies, they are expensive because you are donating much of that money to the Girl Scouts, but the scouts also accept direct donations.

lisarea

That may well be, but in that case, it is inappropriate of the parents to allow their child to initiate conversations with strangers by trying to sell them cookies.

Personally, I expect a great deal from children as a whole. I would assume that a nine or ten year old out selling cookies is mature enough to understand such issues, and as such, I would have no compunctions about bringing them up.

Hell, that boy scout who started the whole campaign to allow homosexuals to join was only eleven or so at the time, if I'm not mistaken.

As it is, I'm a fast walker usually, so I fend off encroaching children with a polite nod of the head and no indication of altering my path. They usually get out of the way.

You're kidding, right?