Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Muad'Dib · 01-09-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pantera:
A minor correction to the minor correction - Jeff Lucas is current president. Jeff Lowder is past president and President Emeritus. Other board members are listed in the <a href="http://www.infidels.org/infidels/faq.shtml" target="_blank">FAQ</a>.

Thanks, Pantera--I have a hard time keeping the two Jeff L.'s straight.

Lonergan · 01-09-2002, 10:33 PM

You guys certainly give Holding more respect than I do.
Even the skeptics Holding bashes at his site sometimes
refer to him as Mr. Holding and as a scholar. I must admit
that I have enjoyed a few chuckles from his Rogue?s Gallery
articles. Except for his sometimes funny puerile humor, I
just can?t understand why so many Christians write so
favorably of him. It has been noticed that Holding offers very
little original thought, but copies and pastes from the real
Christian apologists. Much of Holding?s material comes
from Glenn Miller?s site. Miller is indeed a brilliant thinker
even though I disagree with much of what he has written.
In addition, Miller consistently displays a gentlemanly
manner which is totally missing from Holding.

Anyone who has read much of Holding?s articles should
not fail to notice how little comprehension Holding has of
logic. I suspect he has some literal skills, but almost no
rational skills. Even when the ad hominem parts of his
articles are deleted, the remaining work is horribly flawed.
He seems to think that an assertion is reasonable if it is
stated dogmatically. His analogies are some of the most
outlandish offered by anybody on the Internet, Christian or
otherwise. Just consider any kind of logic flaw and you
would probably be able to easily find it in any Holding
article you choose.

MOJO-JOJO · 01-10-2002, 06:31 AM

As with most fervent evangelists, like Holding, Hannegraff and others who can't or won't earn a living doing anything else, he obviously falls into that category of believer which Richard Dawkins writes about here;

<a href="http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/dawkins_21_4.html" target="_blank">Sadly, an Honest Creationist</a>

MrKrinkles · 01-10-2002, 10:34 AM

Robert Turkel: HERO

This excerpt from a <a href="http://www.tektonics.org/JPH_06.html" target="_blank">page</a> Holding posted prior to making his apologetic work a self supporting venture, shows Holding's view of himself, and his view of his importance to the Christian community. He is truly a warrior for God, a hero to lost souls, and a valiant fighter for all that is good. (smirk) If his head was any bigger, the earth would wobble out of orbit and crash into the sun.

Quote:

In Tekton's history we have had many people write and tell us of their searches for material on Josh McDowell, who ended up on the Secular Web, reading their responses to McDowell, which gave their faith a tempestuous ride...until they found the Tekton response as well. This is all well and good, but what happens when it is a subject that I (or one of the other 'detail apologists' I link to) haven't gotten to?

A few have been surprised to learn that Tekton is a venture pursued in my spare time from work, in wee hours of mornings, on occassional days or mornings off...it was assumed that this work is the result of a permanent position, 40 hours per week. It is not. I desperately want it to be. My heart aches as I see the work that needs to be done, the hearts that need to be mended, the deceivers who need to be corrected, the strongholds that need to be destroyed. They are many. We have every advantage needed to take them on, with the exception of time. 10-12 hours a week isn't going to be enough to do what needs to be done.

I can perhaps bring this home with a more concrete, real-life example. While searching for sites that linked to Tekton, I found an article in the mailbox of an atheistic website called 'Positive Atheism.'
<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/</a>

This site is, intellectually, a peanut-level venture -- the owner of this site is manifestly (as can be shown below) one of those sorts like Dennis McKinsey who uncritically accepts whatever suits his polemical purposes to be published on his site; he confuses quantity with quality, and professes to have run the gamut of beliefs in his lifetime, having clearly been unable to grasp any of his beliefs intellectually, and now, being tired of thinking, has settled into atheism in spite of its own intellectual problems as something he can let others defend for him. The letter he offers serves well as an example of how Tekton can affect lives, and if we may venture an opinion that is not to my glory but to that of our God, how impotent and helpless the critics have come to be in response.

(snip)

To Randy, I say this only: I hope you have seen through Mr. Walker's goulash, and will open a discussion with me; I welcome honest inquirers with the respect they deserve...and give the lash only to those who think they "know it all" before they even start. To my other readers, I close with this: We need Tekton full time. Mr. Walker's impotence and fish-flopping is plain evidence (only the latest!) of this ministry's effectiveness, of the Holy Spirit's movement through these pages. Please submit your testimony and help make full-time ministry a reality. Free my warrior side from its shackles, and let the destruction of strongholds begin in earnest. As a final encouragement, I will share with you my vision for Tekton's future...

By the way, the Positive Atheism page, which Holding pointedly does not link to, is located<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/" target="_blank">here.</a>

Brooks

MrKrinkles · 01-10-2002, 10:39 AM

Quote:

I can perhaps bring this home with a more concrete, real-life example. While searching for sites that linked to Tekton, I found an article in the mailbox of an atheistic website called 'Positive Atheism.'

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/

" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/[/QUOTE]</a>

Just to be clear-Holding's page does not have this link. I put it in the excerpt by accident when I was making the post above.

Anyway...

Brooks

Kosh · 01-10-2002, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrKrinkles:
Robert Turkel: HERO

This excerpt from a <a href="http://www.tektonics.org/JPH_06.html" target="_blank">page</a> Holding posted prior to making his apologetic work a self supporting venture, shows Holding's view of himself, and his view of his importance to the Christian community. He is truly a warrior for God, a hero to lost souls, and a valiant fighter for all that is good. (smirk) If his head was any bigger, the earth would wobble out of orbit and crash into the sun.

This is of course necessary for his occupation.
As my Uncle used to tell me, "There's lots of
ways to make a buck!"

Or my more favorite quote from somewhere in the
II library: "There is no money in Atheism"

MOJO-JOJO · 01-10-2002, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosh:
This is of course necessary for his occupation. As my Uncle used to tell me, "There's lots of ways to make a buck!"

Or my more favorite quote from somewhere in the
II library: "There is no money in Atheism"

Both of which are supported by the famous quote by Barnum (I think), "A sucker is born every minute."

RyanS2 · 01-19-2002, 03:29 PM

Holding's a pompous wannabe critic. Go throughout his website and you'll see this to the ad infinitum,

"This person, (name favorite Biblical critic), has no credentials. None whatsoever!!!"

That's been his standardized response on almost all of his rogue galleries. However, when Wells kindly asked him to supply his credentials, originally, he wouldn't even answer. After he was asked enough, the story then came about that he was a Librarian. After that, he developed, "A standard librarian's education, a master's in Library Science". However, he makes tons of grammar mistakes, he contradicts himself, and he's whiny. So, my rating?

Is he funny?

Depends. Some people find it humorous to watch a third-grader cuss out the principal.

Is he intelligent?

I reference you to his website and leave that to you.

Is he a scholar?

On the same par level as Pauly Shore.

Conclusion?

He's a cheap wannabe. I actually thought his website was a parody because it reminds me of the messageboard at <a href="http://www.jesushatessmut.com/" target="_blank">http://www.jesushatessmut.com/</a>

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01-09-2002, 10:33 PM	#12
Lonergan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: plano Posts: 13	You guys certainly give Holding more respect than I do. Even the skeptics Holding bashes at his site sometimes refer to him as Mr. Holding and as a scholar. I must admit that I have enjoyed a few chuckles from his Rogue?s Gallery articles. Except for his sometimes funny puerile humor, I just can?t understand why so many Christians write so favorably of him. It has been noticed that Holding offers very little original thought, but copies and pastes from the real Christian apologists. Much of Holding?s material comes from Glenn Miller?s site. Miller is indeed a brilliant thinker even though I disagree with much of what he has written. In addition, Miller consistently displays a gentlemanly manner which is totally missing from Holding. Anyone who has read much of Holding?s articles should not fail to notice how little comprehension Holding has of logic. I suspect he has some literal skills, but almost no rational skills. Even when the ad hominem parts of his articles are deleted, the remaining work is horribly flawed. He seems to think that an assertion is reasonable if it is stated dogmatically. His analogies are some of the most outlandish offered by anybody on the Internet, Christian or otherwise. Just consider any kind of logic flaw and you would probably be able to easily find it in any Holding article you choose.

01-10-2002, 06:31 AM	#13
MOJO-JOJO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Nashville, USA Posts: 949	As with most fervent evangelists, like Holding, Hannegraff and others who can't or won't earn a living doing anything else, he obviously falls into that category of believer which Richard Dawkins writes about here; <a href="http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/dawkins_21_4.html" target="_blank">Sadly, an Honest Creationist</a>

01-19-2002, 03:29 PM	#18
RyanS2 Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 216	Holding's a pompous wannabe critic. Go throughout his website and you'll see this to the ad infinitum, "This person, (name favorite Biblical critic), has no credentials. None whatsoever!!!" That's been his standardized response on almost all of his rogue galleries. However, when Wells kindly asked him to supply his credentials, originally, he wouldn't even answer. After he was asked enough, the story then came about that he was a Librarian. After that, he developed, "A standard librarian's education, a master's in Library Science". However, he makes tons of grammar mistakes, he contradicts himself, and he's whiny. So, my rating? Is he funny? Depends. Some people find it humorous to watch a third-grader cuss out the principal. Is he intelligent? I reference you to his website and leave that to you. Is he a scholar? On the same par level as Pauly Shore. Conclusion? He's a cheap wannabe. I actually thought his website was a parody because it reminds me of the messageboard at <a href="http://www.jesushatessmut.com/" target="_blank">http://www.jesushatessmut.com/</a>

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