GeoTheo

Biff,
Good stereotype of an angry atheist.
82% of Americans are Christians why? Because they send Christmans cards? Do you understand the concept of "nominal Christians"?
Also, people give Christians a hard time for living a righteous life, even if they don't push it on people. The reason is that in the very act of living a righteous life, they cause others around them to condemn themselves. So people lash out at them. For example, working with a roofing crew, some guys were looking at some pornography they found on the roof and tried to get me to look at it, but I wouldn't. So they gave me a hard time. I also was given a hard time while in the Army, when I converted to Christianity and gave up drinking. I never told anyone not to drink.
People instinctively know it is wrong to drink in excess and to tell dirty jokes and to gossip about other people and to be dishonest. When you live among people who do such things and strive not to do them yourself you make them feel guilty and that causes resentment. You act as a beam of light exposing their flaws by contrast. Their own conscience condemns them. They then either have to deal with the reality of their own sin, or else try to get rid of the light!

atheist_in_foxhole

No, we give them a hard time because they teach their children ridiculous myths instead of facts, they spread hideous lies (e.g. hell), they fight tooth and nail against women's rights and gay rights, they CONSTANTLY push their "righteousness" on the rest of us, and on top of it all they've succeeded in convincing a huge majority that atheists and agnostics are immoral and unfit to hold any public office. These are only a few of the reasons why some of us are so hostile towards your religion.

You're right. But it has nothing to do with religion! You didn't look at the porn because you (1) didn't want to get caught with porn on the job, (2) don't particularly like looking at pictures of people having sex. And you don't drink because you've probably seen what too much drinking can do to someone. You're a responsible, mature person. Jesus had nothing to do with that.

Quote:

People instinctively know it is wrong to drink in excess and to tell dirty jokes and to gossip about other people and to be dishonest. When you live among people who do such things and strive not to do them yourself you make them feel guilty and that causes resentment. You act as a beam of light exposing their flaws by contrast. Their own conscience condemns them. They then either have to deal with the reality of their own sin, or else try to get rid of the light!

You are correct, but it doesn't have anything to do with "sin." People just don't like to feel guilty about their stupid mistakes. That's human nature. You need to understand that we humans don't get our morals from imaginary gods or goddesses. Some of us may think that we do, but the reality is that we get them from within!

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: atheist_in_foxhole ]</p>

GeoTheo

Right,
You get it from within. The conscience. Christianity is the only religion that aligns with my conscience. That is what attracted me to it.

Godless Dave

Abstaining from alcohol, not using profanity, and attending church three times a week are not Christian practices, they're Southern Baptist practices. When you say "nominal" Christian I think you mean mainstream. The practices you mention are out of the mainstream of Christianity and society as a whole, and thus stand out. The Baptist prohibition on alcohol only started in the 18th or 19th century and AFAIK has little basis in scripture. Taking the lord's name in vain is prohibited in the bible but not the use of words such as fuck and shit (those words are proto-Germanic in origin, but it's likely ancient Hebrew had words referring to bodily functions that weren't considered polite). Even a prohibition on premarital sex depends on how you define "adultery". Parts of the Bible proscribe adultery but other parts say premarital sex is OK as long as you marry the girl eventually. Even the prohibitions on homosexual activity are not as cut and dried as some would have us believe - they are in the same parts of the law that prohibit the eating of pork and shellfish, and some Christians say those are negated by Jesus's new covenant. It's quite possible to follow Christian beliefs and not have problem with homosexuality.

What I'm saying is it's easy and often advantageous to be a mainstream Christian in the US. Some offshoots of Christianity run counter to society's mainstream but they are so far a minority segment of American Christianity.

[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: Godless Dave ]</p>

Biff the unclean

Good stereotype of an angry atheist.
An interesting tact to take. Instill anger in a person and then imply that there is something wrong with them for being angry. And never consider for a minute that there might be something wrong with you that is the cause of their anger. Good stereotype of a Christian bigot.
82% of Americans are Christians why? Because they send Christmans cards? Do you understand the concept of "nominal Christians"?
I have never met a Christian yet who wasn't the "right sort of Christian." It was always the others who were, liberal, right wing, nominal, fanatical, fundis, lax. Then when I talk to the other guys I'm told that they are "true Christians" but it's the first folk who aren't.
Funny how that works.
Also, people give Christians a hard time for living a righteous life, even if they don't push it on people.
I must have been out with a cold then because I can't remember a single day that's gone by that Christians haven't pushed their clap trap on people.
The reason is that in the very act of living a righteous life, they cause others around them to condemn themselves.
I suppose you are talking about some second string Protestant sect that you belong to who are the righteous ones. But you are going to have to get your story straight. These wrong sorts of Christian, who you are condemning for their behavior, are they condemning themselves? Because you seem to be saying that they are condemning you for your behavior, and not themselves.

For example, working with a roofing crew, some guys were looking at some pornography they found on the roof and tried to get me to look at it, but I wouldn't. So they gave me a hard time.
They probably thought that you were the wrong sort of Christian. The "holier than thou" hypocritical sort. I'm sure you straightened them out.
I also was given a hard time while in the Army, when I converted to Christianity and gave up drinking. I never told anyone not to drink.
Don't ask and certainly don't tell.
I didn't drink when I was first in the service. No one cared. Didn't stop them from having a beer or two, didn't stop me from having a Coke and shooting the bull with them. Nobody gave me a hard time.
When I started drinking, no one cared. So there has to be more to this dislike than just drinking or not.
When you live among people who do such things and strive not to do them yourself you make them feel guilty and that causes resentment.
The resentment is to your self-aggrandizing manipulating behavior. These people don't feel guilty for being human. These people consider you to be the wrong sort of Christian, the tight ass sort.
You act as a beam of light exposing their flaws by contrast.
It must be good to be so humble…HA!!!
Their own conscience condemns them. They then either have to deal with the reality of their own sin, or else try to get rid of the light! No, champ, you got that backwards. They don't think that you are "the light." Their conscience is just fine, thank you.
They know that it is you who are the sinner. They know that all your phobias masquerading as virtues are based in hatred. They know that you are condemning them only because they embrace life and you shun it.
They know that YOU are the wrong sort of Christian.

Arvel Joffi

Every day, thank you.

Well, as long as the laws are good, right? Otherwise, that's what civil disobediance is for.

And voting.

And jaywalking.