Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Daggah · 04-29-2002, 08:29 AM

If it's the people in hell that torture each other, I bet the red light district has an overabundance of dominatrix houses.

Gray Fox · 05-28-2002, 10:47 AM

An opinion,
The idea of Satan and Hell is nothing more than superstition. The story was used by the ancients to coerce people into believing the religion's teachings....or suffer punishment. God would not send any of his children to a place like "hell" no matter what they did !! God is not like that. The only message he ever sent to human beings (if any) is: "Love One Another".
I have spoken. Gray Fox

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 05-28-2002, 10:54 AM

Look at Africa and the Middle East. Hell.
Get a high-quality hooker. Heaven.

Do I REALLY need to say more?

Oh, and I once saw a play where three people were in hell. They were tortured quite extensively--by each other's personalities. This eliminates the needs for angels to torture Satan and all. All they need to do is lock him in a room with someone who annoys the hell out of him.

PopeInTheWoods · 05-28-2002, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesus Christ:
<strong>Oh, and I once saw a play where three people were in hell. They were tortured quite extensively--by each other's personalities. This eliminates the needs for angels to torture Satan and all. All they need to do is lock him in a room with someone who annoys the hell out of him.</strong>

Sartre's No Exit. Bottom line: Hell is other people.

05-28-2002, 12:07 PM

I used to imagine being sent to hell and suffering in prayerful silence all the torment.

Yes, in life I might have sinned, but if suffering is an opportunity for sanctification, I thought that hell could provide me an opportunity to redeem myself.

Satan, in my mind, was forced into hell, but by his fiendish nature and tremendous power, he usurped control of it thereby becoming the torture master in the service of our almighty and all merciful God in heaven.

sidewinder · 05-28-2002, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvluv:
<strong>I tend to believe that the people in Hell torment each other, but it is entirely possible to me that if Hell entails complete separation from God, and God is the source of all goodness, then being in Hell alone could be tormenting.

As I've argued elsewhere I think that people who live together in a place completely devoid of all goodness would soon degenerate into a sub-human state. That state could be torturous without any outside force imposing any torture on Hell's inhabitants. And is also conceivable that people deprived of any possibility of goodness would eventually begin to torment each other.

In such a scenario, any torment imposed by God would be extraneous.

Also, much of the torment might not only be physical (if it is physical at al) it could be the torment of regret, or of anger, resentment, lust, sadism, etc.

I also don't know that there is a "jailer" or that a jailer is necessary. The Christian belief is that Hell is a place that the unsaved choose to go by rejecting God. They would rather "reign in hell than serve in heaven". They don't want anything to do with God, so God sends them to a place where they won't have to deal with Him. As C.S. Lewis and others have said, the gates of hell are locked from the inside. As bad as hell is, those in it would rather suffer than submit.
I think this is why Jesus considered pride to be the worst sin. Those who are in Hell are there because they will not yield.

[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: luvluv ]</strong>

Yield to what exactly? Since you are a Christian, I assume you think all humans should submit to Christian belief. But which form of Christian belief? There are thousands of denominations, each with their own unique interpretation of the Christian religion. Some denominations think their interpretation is the only true interpretation and all those who don't submit to it will end up in this place wicked religious minds have dreamed up called "Hell". Furthermore, what if you personally belong to the wrong religion? What if Islam is the true religion of God and you will be sent to Hell for believing in the wrong religion? What if Jesus wasn't the Jewish Messiah and you are kindling God's wrath on a daily basis by worshipping a man as God?

05-28-2002, 12:46 PM

How can you claim someone who would send you to be eternally tortured is all merciful? I know for sure Im not all merciful, but if I had a son, I sure as hell couldnt send him to hell FOR ALL ETERNITY no matter what he did to me. Not only is that an unfair punishment, its the opposite of love. Yes, tuff love is nessicary sometimes, but tuff love is used when the person you love needs to learn his lesson or grow personally, if hell is forever and you cant get out, then its not tuff love but hate.

Echo · 05-28-2002, 12:49 PM

Quote:

As bad as hell is, those in it would rather suffer than submit.

I find this particularly ironic. According to Christian theology, a Muslim would go to Hell for not accepting Jesus as his savior; but is it fair to say that he goes to hell because he does not submit? After all, IIRC, the word "Muslim" means "one who submits," and the religion revolves around the idea of submitting oneself completely to God.

It seems to me that if Christian theology is correct, Muslims go to Hell not because they chose to or because they would not "submit", but because they simply held some erroneous ideas about the nature of God and his instructions for man.

The "locked from the inside" bit doesn't cut it.

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04-29-2002, 08:29 AM	#21
Daggah Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Deployed to Kosovo Posts: 4,314	If it's the people in hell that torture each other, I bet the red light district has an overabundance of dominatrix houses.

05-28-2002, 10:47 AM	#22
Gray Fox New Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Green Spring, WV Posts: 3	An opinion, The idea of Satan and Hell is nothing more than superstition. The story was used by the ancients to coerce people into believing the religion's teachings....or suffer punishment. God would not send any of his children to a place like "hell" no matter what they did !! God is not like that. The only message he ever sent to human beings (if any) is: "Love One Another". I have spoken. Gray Fox

05-28-2002, 10:54 AM	#23
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	Look at Africa and the Middle East. Hell. Get a high-quality hooker. Heaven. Do I REALLY need to say more? Oh, and I once saw a play where three people were in hell. They were tortured quite extensively--by each other's personalities. This eliminates the needs for angels to torture Satan and all. All they need to do is lock him in a room with someone who annoys the hell out of him.

05-28-2002, 12:07 PM	#25
Synaesthesia Guest Posts: n/a	I used to imagine being sent to hell and suffering in prayerful silence all the torment. Yes, in life I might have sinned, but if suffering is an opportunity for sanctification, I thought that hell could provide me an opportunity to redeem myself. Satan, in my mind, was forced into hell, but by his fiendish nature and tremendous power, he usurped control of it thereby becoming the torture master in the service of our almighty and all merciful God in heaven.

05-28-2002, 12:46 PM	#27
himynameisPwn Guest Posts: n/a	How can you claim someone who would send you to be eternally tortured is all merciful? I know for sure Im not all merciful, but if I had a son, I sure as hell couldnt send him to hell FOR ALL ETERNITY no matter what he did to me. Not only is that an unfair punishment, its the opposite of love. Yes, tuff love is nessicary sometimes, but tuff love is used when the person you love needs to learn his lesson or grow personally, if hell is forever and you cant get out, then its not tuff love but hate.

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