Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RED DAVE · 08-04-2003, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Indeed . . . and to put the "boot in further" did the Christian Nazis who ran such camps go to heaven?

Of course they did. They repented, like good little mass murderers, and they got absolution and went to Heaven.

RED DAVE

Doctor X · 08-04-2003, 04:30 AM

Yes, it warms the cockles of my heart to know that Josef Mengele may have repented during the roughly two minutes between his stroke and drowning while swimming, received forgiveness, and is in Heavan, while all of those Jewish children he murdered are in Hell. . . .

I mean, I am sure he was sorry. . . .

--J.D.

excreationist · 08-04-2003, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X
Yes, it warms the cockles of my heart to know that Josef Mengele may have repented during the roughly two minutes between his stroke and drowning while swimming, received forgiveness, and is in Heavan, while all of those Jewish children he murdered are in Hell. . . .

I mean, I am sure he was sorry. . . .

Josef would have to be sorry in order to be saved. (I think)
Anyway, since everyone has sinned against God (assuming the one who uses hell exists), all people deserve to go to hell - even so-called "good" people. But some people just get out of hell anyway - if they truly worship and serve the Christian God that is (and recognize that they're a miserable sinner, etc)

Secular Pinoy · 08-04-2003, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
It is evident that each of the Gospels contemplates Jesus Christ in a distinct relationship - Matthew as King, Mark as Servant, Luke as Son of Man, and John as Son of God.

Uhm, when I said the passion narrative, I'm referring to the week leading to the crucufixion of Jesus, up til Easter. It can be found at Matt 28:1-20, Mark 16:1-20, Luke 24:1-53, and John 20:1 to 21:25. Also, there's Acts 1:3-12 and 1 Cor 15:3-8, which aren't in the gospels themselves. Care to reconcile them then?

emotional · 08-04-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
The moon is the brightest light in the sky at night and so it's a great light. Even though it shines because of the sun, it acts as a night light at night. It is also used for times and seasons and also telling the weather by how it looks.

What about the scientific accuracy of the Bible? I thought the Bible was supposed to be accurate on all matters it touches? Calling the moon a light is plain inaccurate. The creator of the universe should know better than that. Ergo, the Bible is not from the creator of the universe. It is written from the earthbound perspective of ignorant men.

Quote:

source: http://www.rice.edu/armadillo/Sciaca...ngs.htm#lights

The Two Great Lights

Chris Hobson has a few quibbles regarding the "two great lights" created early on in Genesis, which everyone understands to mean the Sun and Moon:

The Moon is in fact not a light at all, but merely reflects the light of the Sun. It was also created in order to "rule the night," but actually spends half of the time in the daytime sky, where it is more often than not invisible. It is not really all that great in astronomical terms, either, being a mere 2,159 miles in diameter. The sun does qualify as a light, but again not a very great one, being a tiny, insignificant little star, just 865,000 miles in diameter. Betelgeuse is 250,000,000 miles in diameter and 15,000 times brighter than the Sun, Rigel is 60,000 times brighter than the Sun. [If the Sun is "great," then what term should be applied to stars like those? RJR] Genesis 1:18 states that one of the purposes of these heavenly bodies is "to separate the light from the darkness" which I thought God had already taken care of in verse 4. So in conclusion, of the two great lights, neither of them is great [compared to objects in the same category] and only one of them is a light. This is not very good going for a book which is claimed to be literally true and scientifically accurate.

Wayne Delia · 08-04-2003, 10:01 AM

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Originally posted by EasternGate Moses himself, notwithstanding his age and gravity, walked out of the camp to congratulate them on their victory, and to grace the solemnity of their <braaaaap>

Again, this material was plagiarized without proper attribution from www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Num/Num031.html - is it really asking too much for Christians to think for themselves, much less expect that they give proper credit to the others who are doing their thinking for them?

WMD

Wayne Delia · 08-04-2003, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
I answered your question but like I said, the reason unbelievers can't understand God's word is because they have not the Spirit in order to understand God's word.

From what I have seen, you have answered my question with a complete ad-hoc conjecture which is not Scripturally supported and, in the context given, is contradicted by the specific Scriptures where God refers to His own jealousy of man's attention and worship of other gods.

I said as In Romans 1, they worship the creation instead of the Creator who create all things.

Meanwhile, we're discussing Exodus 20 and Exodus 34, in which God explicitly admits He's jealous. Why are you so afraid to address the actual issue?

As for Jealous of other gods, God tells us and we know there are NO OTHER GODS besides Jehovah.

Then why did He waste an entire commandment against people believing in and worshipping other gods which didn't exist? Exactly where does God say that there are no other gods?

So the Lord is jealous because men worship gods they create in their hearts and minds. These gods, the lord says, cannot hear, speak nor see because they are carved idols made from things God created, men just put names on these deities but they are worthless idols made of wood, metal, water, stone, stars, angels etc. all things God created.

To repeat a question already asked, isn't jealousy a human imperfection that one would not reasonably expect in a God?

WMD

Cross Examiner · 08-04-2003, 11:16 AM

In the absence of EasternGate, for the present at least, I'll respond to one or two of the enquries. Wayne, you write:

Quote:

Meanwhile, we're discussing Exodus 20 and Exodus 34, in which God explicitly admits He's jealous. Why are you so afraid to address the actual issue?

EasternGate is not likely afraid, he's painting a bigger picture than you asked for, or perhaps, care to entertain. I referred you and others to a more focused reply to the notion of God as "jealous" before, and since I hesitate reinventing the wheel repeatedly, I'll reference the original response again:

"excreationist et al.,
I stumbled upon this thread on the "jealousy" of God

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exodus 34:14 - "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (NIV)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and thought I'd mention that while a convenient caricature of God for the determined atheist, allowing God as "jealous", according to the 21st century American sense, is also bad exegesis. A word of caution, reading the aforementioned link may disturb your current notion--so you may want to consider the informed alternative, or not.

Ancient: Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, context.

Regards,
BGic"

Now, to those who would call the Nazis "Christian" or somehow think them otherwise pardoned by God:

"Why do you call me "Lord, Lord" and do not do the things I say? " (Luke 6:46)

It is also comforting to me that God alone sees the heart of man and judges fairly, accordingly. There is no higher court.

"Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25)

For the one(s) whose relatives died in the Holocaust, know that the Bible teaches that God is just and holds accountable each to only that which one has received. As such, I hesitate engaging in conversations regarding who is and who is not saved/pardoned. So should each but rather let each respond rightly to that which he has heard.

Regards,
BGic

beastmaster · 08-04-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy Graham is cool
Now, to those who would call the Nazis "Christian" or somehow think them otherwise pardoned by God:

"Why do you call me "Lord, Lord" and do not do the things I say? " (Luke 6:46)

So the Biblical God never bloodied his hands with a little genocide? That's a new one by me!

Seems to me that the Nazis imitated perfectly both the actions and self-justifying propaganda of your mythical monster.

Cross Examiner · 08-04-2003, 12:08 PM

beastmaster,

Quote:

So the Biblical God never bloodied his hands with a little genocide? That's a new one by me!

Seems to me that the Nazis imitated perfectly both the actions and self-justifying propaganda of your mythical monster.

Platitudes aside, show me otherwise.

Regards,
BGic

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08-04-2003, 04:30 AM	#62
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Yes, it warms the cockles of my heart to know that Josef Mengele may have repented during the roughly two minutes between his stroke and drowning while swimming, received forgiveness, and is in Heavan, while all of those Jewish children he murdered are in Hell. . . . I mean, I am sure he was sorry. . . . --J.D.

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