Wave Man

I believe there are four sources outside the gospels, all of them rather brief.

There is the Jewish historian Josefus, who around year 90 describe the events played out in the decades before the war 66-70. He is mentioned only in passing, in a comment about the execution of "Jacob, the brother of Christ." In the same work, Antiquitates Judaicae, there is also a fairly positive description of Jesus and His works.

There is also many polemic writings from that time by jewish rabbis. They don't deny his existance, or even his miracles, strangely perhaps, only by which power he did those miracles. They don't deny that he was sentenced by jewish authorities.

There is the roman historian Tacitus, who in his works Annales (from around 115) tells of how emperor Nero blamed the burning of Rome on Christians, and how these Christians were followers of Christ who was executed under the reign of Tiberius by action of Pontius Pilatus (Pilate).

No one in the time and place of the first century seem to deny that Jesus existed, even his enemies and the jewish rabbis, even if they do not agree that he was the son of God, etc.

Thank you.
Ronin

lpetrich

Which is consistent with a historical JC being someone very obscure -- which makes the Gospels mistaken about his celebrity.

Whose comments about JC have been very controversial. The "Testimonium Flavianum" is often thought to be rewritten, and even a forgery, and "James, brother of Jesus" could be a different Jesus.

Except that that sort of credulity was rather general back then. Early Xian apologists seldom denied the existence of pagan deities or the occurrence of pagan miracles. Instead, they believed that pagan deities were evil devils who were capable of working miracles.

So does that mean that Apollonius of Tyana had raised a little girl from the dead, as JC had allegedly done with Lazarus? Or that Roman Emperor Vespasian had cured some people with magical spit therapy, and JC had allegedly done on occasion?

And as to those Rabbis, they believed that the virgin-birth story was invented to cover up JC's real paternity: a Roman soldier named Panthera.

Who only learned about JC from his followers.

Iasion

Greetings WaveMan,

As lpetrich noted, the T.F. is considered by many to be a FORGERY :

We know that the original Josephus was NOT the same as ours (Origen's review makes it clear).
And Josephus, a devout Jew, could not possibly have written in so glowing Christian terms about Jesus.

So No,
Josephus is NO evidence for Jesus as all.


From "that time"?
No.

The Jewish stories of Jesus, e.g. the Toldoth Jeschu and the Pantera stories, all date from no earlier than the 2nd century.

So no,
the Jewish writings have NO evidence for Jesus.


Who wrote nearly a century later, and merely gives a tiny scrap of detail which he could have learned from any Christian of the time.

Funny, too, that no one noticed this passage in Tacitus for a THOUSAND years!


Pardon?
No-one from the first century shows any knowledge of JC at all - even those who most certainly SHOULD have.

Justus of Tiberias wrote a history of Galilee in the 1st century - NO mention of Jesus or the Gospel events.

Philo Judaeus wrote about the Jews etc in the mid 1st century - NO mention about Jesus or the Christians or the Gospel events.

A further 50 writers from the 1st century, some of who would be expected to mention something - ALL say absolutely NOTHING about Jesus, the Christians or the Gospel events.
<a href="http://members.iinet.net.au/~quentinj/Christianity/EarlyWriters.html" target="_blank">Early Writers</a>


Even the 1st century Christian writers show NO mention of Jesus of Nazareth or the Gospel events - merely a few spiritual formulae about the 'crucifixion' and the 'cross'

NOT ONE SINGLE 1st century Christian mentions ANYTHING about:[*] the birth stories of Jesus,[*] the childhood of Jesus,[*] the flight to Egypt,[*] the slauhter of the innocents,[*] the baptism of Jesus or John the baptist (even when discussing Christian baptism)[*] the teachings of Jesus,[*] the miracles of Jesus (even when discussing raising the dead),[*] the healings by Jesus,[*] the triumphal entry into Jerusalem,[*] the sermon on the mount,[*] the instructions by Jesus to the apostles,[*] the trial of Jesus,[*] the events while Jesus was on the cross


NOT ONE SINGLE 1st century Christian says a single word about :[*] Mary and Joseph[*] Pilate[*] Judas[*] Lazarus[*] Joseph Arimathea[*] the Magi[*] Bethlehem[*] Nazareth[*] Gethsemane[*] Calvary

The story of Jesus of Nazareth was UNKNOWN in the 1st century - it was created in the 2nd century when the Gospels were written.

Quentin David Jones

offa

Offa; Josephus may not have written those passages about Jesus Christ. One thing, Jesus was a Samaritan and Josephus hated Samaritans (or so he claimed). However, Josephus knew who Jesus was.

After the death of king Agrippa Josephus writes about the "holy vestments" which were wore by the Jewish high priests. See Book 20 chapter I. These vestments suddenly appear after Agrippa's death.
(previous chapter).

In Acts 12:21 king Agrippa is wearing this holy apparel and it is at this time he is poisoned (eaten by worms, snake poison).

Josephus writes about Eutychus getting caught stealing these clothes (Book 18:169). It was Eutychus (Jesus good friend John Mark) mission to go to Rome and get these sacred garments back. This is the same Eutychus in Acts 20:09.

King Agrippa was "the soldiers" in John 19:23. He took the royal apparel that Jesus had somehow managed to confiscate.

Josephus knew how Agrippa got his hands on the priestly vestments and he knew who Eutychus was.
Josephus only tells those of us who have "eyes" to read and "ears" to hear. It's all about metaphors.