Tony

Ihmhi,

First of all, be calm. Don’t take it personally. Try to imagine that this is a math problem that you have to solve. Or consider this situation as a chess game.

Unlike Kasparov, you’re not playing against the big computer. Your teacher is a human too. She is definitely confused between god and country. Try politely to point it out without offending her as a person. Talk to her without other students around. If other students will be around, she might try to keep her “teacher” image. Try to talk to her as equal to equal - with respect to yourself and her.

Since she was in a military, her personality might be influenced by it. For military purposes is very important to be more patriotic that in civil life. Military people have to be ready to give their life for the country. That’s why in a military a lot of attention is paid to patriotic views. If you do some research about military and patriotic views and try to mention some of the patriotic stuff (how you love your country, etc…) in your conversation with her – she’ll become your best friend. Or, at least, she won’t become your enemy. (I’m not asking you to lie – you can mention your patriotic feeling if you have them.)

It’s strange to me that children in school have to recite the Pledge of Allegiance as standard procedure. I grew up in former Soviet Union. We had a lot of propaganda but we didn’t have to recite any pledge. We did it once a year during celebration of the anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution on November 7 (the day when communists came to power in Russia in 1917). And that’s it! Once a year. Not every day.

If you forced to love your country – you’ll hate it. I loved my country (former Soviet Union – people, whom I loved and liked, places where I lived) and hated Soviet government and communist party. I still do both.

Another thing – your government is not the same thing as your country. I don’t believe in slogan “Don’t ask what country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”. It’s a good phrase but its misleading coming from the guy who came to power with mafia’s help. You’ll pay taxes your whole life. That’s what you are going to do for your country and government.

You have a right to ask what your government can do for you in return for your taxes. You have a right to ask your government to change back the Pledge of Allegiance to its original variant.

Well, I saw on TV that current president said that this is ridiculous. But wasn’t it ridiculous to change during the McCarthy era in a first place? This government has to admit that the government of the McCarthy era had no right to change the pledge, officially apologize and remove that religious stuff.

But that’s another discussion.

Jewel

I honestly don't remember having to recite the pledge in school since elementary school. And I had no idea what it meant then.

I'm glad you are protesting the pledge, Ihmhi. It does sound like your teacher is confusing your nonviolent protest with disrespect. It is not disrespectful to protest an injustice.

DMB

Ihmhi: I'm glad you're standing up for your beliefs. I would suggest trying to be as non-confrontational as possible, however. No need to turn your back, which is a gesture of disrespect.

I think the advice to talk to the teacher in private is a good one and make sure you have all the facts at your fingertips before starting.

As a non-American, I have always found the daily recital of the Pledge a rather curious custom, but one that can be explained by the need to integrate a nation of immigrants.

Other countries manage without it and don't fall apart as a result. Mind you, we British have a religious National Anthem -- God save the Queen. Most people don't know the words past the first verse, which is a pity, since they are so bloodthirsty:
The thing is that nowadays most people don't bother with the National Anthem at all. No-one cares much if you refuse to stand for it.

Ihmhi

I have made my decision. I am going to simply stand but not recite the pledge. Although I have great respect for my country (and even a little respect for the government that runs it), I am strongly against the integration of religion. Now if only we could get them to stop swearing on the bible in court.:banghead:

DMB

But surely that goes according to religion. Are non-xians required to swear on the bible? Can't one choose to affirm?

Toto

If you ask for a "civil oath" in California, you will be allowed to swear a non-religious oath (no "so help me God"). I don't know of any jurisdictions that actually have a Bible for witnesses in court to swear on; they would have to decide which version to use, and that would ignite theological controversy that might never die down.

The President is sworn in using a Bible, but that is pure tradition, with no legal foundation.

Jewel

I'm pretty sure you can ask for a "civil oath" in any state. At the very least you can request to affirm rather than swear to gawd. Some states make a habit of asking which you'd prefer -- others wait for you to ask, but I've never had problems.

beoba

That's a lot of black ink if you print that..

beoba

Same, never since K.

paul30

I applaud your courage, Imhi.

Certain religions, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, refuse not only the pledge but military service because they say their allegiance should be to God, not to a particular set of people.

So the Pledge discriminates against them, right off the bat.

Also, in addition to the "under God" addition, the Pledge is extremely questionable elsewhere: with liberty and justice for all?

Hardly.

Go to the reservations, and see how much liberty and justice the Indians got.

Go to Perry Homes in Atlanta or South Central in LA, and see how much liberty and justice black folks get.

Go to any barrio or sharecrop camp in Florida or Texas or California, and see how much liberty and justice Hispanics get.

Go to the polling places in Florida where 90,000 were disqualified in the 2000 election unjustly, and see how much liberty and justice our unPresident gives them.