dangin

You know, this reminds of those folks who say there is no evidence for god, and there is no evidence against god, so it can't be proved and I am going to believe.

But the fact is, the world is full of evidence. Each day the knowledge of humankind increases. There are mountains of data and evidence that exist in all forms of human endeavor. And none of it supports the supernatural, and all of it supports a flexible and adapting scientific, naturalistic world.

Now there's something to rest one's faith, er I mean, knowledge on.

emotional

All it means is that the supernatural is hidden. In any case, I refuse to bow before the idol of science.

Calzaer

Apparently so well hidden that it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on the life of any human in existance, and is therefore utterly meaningless.

If you can't find the "supernatural" while you're alive, what makes you think you'll find it when you're dead?

Charlie

Yes but they are intertwind.. Wouldn't you agree that if something is real, then it can be proved to be real. I cannot think of anything that is real, that has no proof to support it. Evolution is real, therefore it can be proved. I would say science concerns itself only with what is real, reality.

Are you trying to say that the supernatural or God is real and that it just has not been proved yet? I would be willing to accept that as a possibility, if you are willing to accept that until it is proven it is only a belief.
Charlie

emotional

Good grief, Calzaer! Do you wear the tag of "Wiccan-in-Training" just for sport?! What's to distinguish between you and the metaphysical naturalists here?!

emotional

No, I disagree.



There should be an example of a "perfect murder" - a murder so well covered-up that no-one ever gets to know about it. It was real, but it can't be proved. The apple that falls from a tree makes a sound even if no-one hears it.



Science concerns itself only with the natural. If there is a supernatural entity that created the universe billions of years ago, science cannot tell anything about it.



No, I have long despaired of science proving anything beyond the scope of the naturalistic worldview. It would be very nice if science proved the afterlife, and then I would make peace with science, but I'm certainly not holding my breath. Science has a track record of pleasing atheists only, so I've decided to do without the favours of science.

It is a belief that the things in question (God, afterlife) are real.

Charlie

Actually, it has and still is having an effect on millions of people who believe their religion to be true and real accepting it as reality. All of these people 'have' found the supernatural while alive. It's fascinating.

Btw, I thought you were one who believes in the supernatural..
Charlie

emotional

Indeed. Faith has an immense quickening effect upon me.

I can make two guesses about Calzaer:

1. He doesn't believe in the supernatural, so his profile description of himself as "Wiccan" is all a sham, or

2. More charitably: he does believe in the supernatural, and bases his belief on Subjective Religious Experiences (SREs), and thus feels justified in mocking those, like me, who have not had any SREs but believe in spite.

Charlie

Charlie

Fascinating! Please tell me exactly what a Subjective Religious Experience is? Also, how would anyone else know if you have or have not had one?
Sincerely and thank you!
Charlie