Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jat · 04-25-2003, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Melkor
If individuals obtain police protection through voluntary means, then alternatives can be available in the free market.

I don't think it would be very wise to have the sole police force being the only possible purveyor of order by contractually obligating such a role (i.e., it wouldn't be wise to enter into a contract with a police force that disallows hiring any other police on any terms in the case of a strike with a particular union). That would be a conflict of interests.

Here's a question for you:

In the society we currently have, what happens when a police force goes on strike? That is not without precedent....

What's to stop another "contractor" from seeing that you are in a bind and charging you far more?

AdamWho · 04-25-2003, 09:15 AM

Libertarians believe that protection of the people is one of the few jobs of government. So I think under a Libertarian system the police would be like the military and the right to organize or strike would not exist.

Autonemesis · 04-25-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamWho
Libertarians believe that protection of the people is one of the few jobs of government. So I think under a Libertarian system the police would be like the military and the right to organize or strike would not exist.

So it would seem that the right to assemble peacably and the right to associate freely are not objectively absolute rights, like the right to property. Does anything trump the right to property in a libertarian-governed society?

Ultron · 04-25-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
in a libertarian society, what happens if the police go on strike?

Easy, under the current Constitution states can still have militias, and people still have the right to defend themselves. You don't want vigilantism so unless the whole govt collapses, federal and state, there should be some form of govt there to give the authority to others to enforce the law.

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
What is the answer to such a crisis that respects everyone's objective rights and still allows for policing those rights?

Well I presume other forms of govt exist in that city where the cops went on strike yes? Still a mayor, governor and a state or municipal congresses?

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
I don't think a libertarian can propose a solution to this dilemma that doesn't severely abuse some party's rights in exactly the way they themselves wish not to be abused.

I don't know of any Libertarian which is so much anti-govt that this situation couldn't be handled on the city or state level. The federal govt wouldn't have to get involved unless the state govt collapsed.

Only an anarchist would not have an answer to this question, that didn't revolve around the city or state govt coming up with a solution.

AdamWho · 04-25-2003, 03:26 PM

Quote:

So it would seem that the right to assemble peaceably and the right to associate freely are not objectively absolute rights, like the right to property. Does anything trump the right to property in a libertarian-governed society?

When some one signs up to military, they temporarily suspend lots of their rights. I believe that in a strict libertarian society the police force would have to be run like this.
The defense of the people in a libertarian society is NOT a function of the market. Libertarians understand that the government still needs to have a monopoly of power so that people can pursue their "liberties".
The idea floating around about individuals having to hire "protection" in a libertarian society are strawman.

Loren Pechtel · 04-25-2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
Melkor, in a libertarian society, what happens if the police go on strike? What is the answer to such a crisis that respects everyone's objective rights and still allows for policing those rights?

I don't think a libertarian can propose a solution to this dilemma that doesn't severely abuse some party's rights in exactly the way they themselves wish not to be abused.

Well, eventually the answer would be go to a different police company. We aren't quite to that point, though.

Loren Pechtel · 04-25-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
What's to stop another "contractor" from seeing that you are in a bind and charging you far more?

And there would be only two??

Jat · 04-26-2003, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
And there would be only two??

Even if there are more there is no guarantee of quality of service either. People will get the cheapest they can. Quality is a secondary concern with most. Just look at M$ and Windows. Windows is crap, yet it is on over 95% of the computers in the world. Why? Because it usually comes included with the system.

In theory competition works, but in practice it is not so clear.

Loren Pechtel · 04-26-2003, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Even if there are more there is no guarantee of quality of service either. People will get the cheapest they can. Quality is a secondary concern with most. Just look at M$ and Windows. Windows is crap, yet it is on over 95% of the computers in the world. Why? Because it usually comes included with the system.

In theory competition works, but in practice it is not so clear.

Sure, it's crap. But if you want to work with what's out there you don't really have a choice.

Jat · 04-26-2003, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
Sure, it's crap. But if you want to work with what's out there you don't really have a choice.

Exactly. In the business world you really don't have to make a better good or service, you just have to get rid of the competition. Hence the need of a strong government.

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04-25-2003, 09:15 AM	#12
AdamWho Contributor Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13,389	Libertarians believe that protection of the people is one of the few jobs of government. So I think under a Libertarian system the police would be like the military and the right to organize or strike would not exist.

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