keyser_soze

Don't let reality get in the way of a good fiction...

Kosh

I wonder why they built that out of steel, instead of Gopher wood? I mean,wood is so much easier to work with than steel.....

Spaz

Holy shit dude, when I was reading vinnie I thought he was on drugs or something. I was thinking, since when does vinnie believe in a literal old testament? I was about to ask if you were playing devil's advocate man...

Nickle

Just for the lurkers:Talk Origins pretty much covers all of Mr. Hovind's arguments.

Felstorm

http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/contents-bible.htm

http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeologyquestions.htm

Some good information on those two sites. Of particular interest is this page...

http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/flood.htm

At any rate it seems to be a general scientific concensus that the Flood was more than likely a Near Eastern catastrophy. Obviously the whole world could not have been flooded. As pointed out the "selective" breeding programs of Noah would have had to make lots of species of animals in a really short amount of time.

How about bugs? Two of every kind of several million "kinds" bugs. For evolution to be a crock that's alot of new species. But then again anything is possible with an all-powerful imaginary friend.

Radcliffe Emerson

Apparently it is. People want to believe there's a big daddy up in the sky that will make it all better, and when it doesn't get better in this life, well then it's the life after death where big daddy will make it all better.

It gets me that the bible is just a book, and the chapters in it were voted on by humans at the council of Nicea in 325 ad, and early versions of Christianity crushed for not believing in the ridiculous Trinity, etc.
I've read that 90% of what Christianity now says people have to believe was never even mentioned by the earliest Christians. I don't know what their sources are however.
Christians are so quick to condemn other beliefs, like Islam (based on a book, no better or worse than the bible), yet when the absurdness of their bible is pointed out (a donkey talking to his owner in the Old Testament? Geesh!), well, there's is true because it's the Looord!
In my opinion, any serious study of the actual history of that region, and the archaeological findings, along with studying the history of the bible itself, makes it blatant that it's all made up crap!
I actually came to realize that a couple of years ago debating which bible version should be used. It became so apparent it had been tampered with and changed over the centuries, hardly the work of someone who would expect a 'god' to punish them for changing his word....
It's interesting that nations on this planet that are predominantly Christian in their thinking tend to be the most corrupt, perverted, and unlawful.

Oh, I forgot, all you have to do is ask Jesus to forgive you each time you do something wrong, and everything will be all right.

jayh

Regarding Hovind, even other creationists are disgusted with his personal dishonesty and dishonest arguements.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1011hovind.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...q/dont_use.asp

jayh

ex libris

There's a whole lot of water on Earth! Something like 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons (326 million trillion gallons) of the stuff (roughly 1,260,000,000,000,000,000,000 liters) can be found on our planet.

And this explains Noah's flood? How? Yes there's a hell of a lot of water and it's still tens of thousands of feet below high mountan tops. How much more would you need to cover the mountains?

Molten rocks deep in the earths interior may be surprisingly wet, Japanese researchers say. From lab experiments, they have concluded there may be more H2O deep underground than in all oceans, lakes, and rivers combined.”

Again... what does this explain satisfactorily about Noah's flood?

I base my beliefs in what I KNOW not what I might think is the flavor of the month like many evolutionist.


Science develops because scientists respond to new information. Religion, by contrast ignores new evidence.

The arc was the size of about three football fields (Measurements can be found in the bible) More than enough room for animals, suppplies and Noah's family.

Much smaller than a small zoo, which has a few thousand species (unlike the many millions inhabiting the earth)



Boat building is a simple operation of mass and water displacement. You would build according to your needs. Pitch covered the outside of the arc. Repairs could have been made while at sea.

Spoken by a person who has never built a large wooden boat. Sure sounds easy doesn't it. Why were none of the great wooden ships of the golden age of sail that large if it was so easy (the USS Constitution was only about 200' long)?



It shows what little understanding you have about adaptation. Ever hear of microevolution. If I could manipulate DNA, I could produce different varieties easily. .

Hmmm. the traditional argument from creationists is that kind is limited to animals that can interbreed. Ony VERY closely related birds can interbreed, not only can't a sparrow inter breed with a hawk, a different kind of hawk can't. (btw your dog argument is immaterial since all dogs are a single species). The very thing creationists insist can't happen, you suggest happened in just 4000 years (actually less since many of these animals are mentioned as existing in the OT).

Kosh

Looks like a battle of the bullshitters...

Mageth

I was 4/5 through with a long response to ex libris this morning when I hit some hot key combination and lost my work!

Anyways, jayh has made several of my points more succinctly than I was going to.

I'd like to point out, however, that in regards to the water locked in the earth's mantle, it's been there for billions of years. For it to be of any use in regards to a global flood, someone's gonna have to provide a viable hypothesis on how it could get out to the surface of the earth and then back to where it is now. Lotsa luck.

I'd also like to point out that Mt. Everest is @29,000 feet tall, and has been there for millions of years. Multiply that by 12 (inches) and you get 348,000 inches. Now multiply 40 days by 24 hours to get 960 hours. Dividing 348,000 by 960 gives 362.5 inches of rain per hour for the full 40 days necessary to cover the earth to the depth of Mt. Everest. That's as much rain per hour as falls in the rainiest places on earth in an entire year. You could perhaps knock ten or so inches off that to cover the volume of the land.

ex libris said:

Boat building is a simple operation of mass and water displacement.

Umm, yeah, right. If you think that's all that goes into ship building/marine engineering, you're sorely mistaken. Look into it a bit if you don't believe me. Meanwhile, don't ask me to go asea on a boat you designed and built.

I’m sorry, I guess I shouldn’t have used a word that is found in the bible in the context of which I am using it. I should have known you probably have never read and I mean read the bible.

Yes, I've read the bible. Enough to recognize that much of it, such as the Genesis creation and flood accounts, are myths.

So to spell it out for you Kinds are the class of animals dog, cat, bird etc.

Umm, that's examples of "kinds". And I've read the bible enough to know that the bible doesn't explicitly give that (or any other) definition for "kind" - that's something that's been cooked up by creationists. The bible uses "kind" rather ambiguous, actually. It could mean individual species, the way I read it.

I'd like a scientific definition of "kind", one that could be used to actually tell which "kind" a particular animal belongs to. And you could use it in an example, perhaps to tell us which kinds rock hyraxes, manatees, and elephants belong to.

So, are lions, tigers, domestic cats, leopards, jaguars, ocelots, etc. all of the "cat" kind? Do you realize that there is plenty of documented evidence (drawings, writings, skeletons, mummified cats from Egypt, sculptures, etc.) that convincingly demonstrate the existence of all these species of felines, along with others, for thousands of years if not more, to well before the supposed date of the flood? The same is true for the dog "kind", bird "kinds", and probably any other "kind" you can dream up.

You have got to be kidding. Just because something was Written first in no way means it is original. If you knew your history, you would know that the worlds people used an oral tradition, which means they were illiterate until a writing system was devised, which for the Hebrews happened to be after the Sumerians.

Umm, the Hebrews weren't around yet when the Sumerians were inventing their myths, dude. Kinda hard for them to pass along their oral histories to the Sumerians.

If you knew your history, you would know most if not all ancient historians (with the possible exception of those with a strong literal biblical bias) agree the Sumerian flood myth predates the Hebrew flood myth by a considerable period (@1000 years, if I'm not mistaken), in fact predates the biblically derived date of the flood, and that the Hebrews borrowed the myth from the Sumerians (via the Babylonians, who had previously adopted it).

Was it as good for you as it was for me? Notice I used non-religious sources.

Quoting scientific sources that aren't applicable to your argument, and failing to provide any hypothetical mechanism as to how they would support your argument, hardly qualifies.

Unless you consider Darwinism a religion, I would. It is after all a belief system is it not?

No, it is not. It is a scientific theory. Note that many theists accept evolution.

And I didn't really see where you used "Darwinism", either, other than in misapplication and with gross misunderstanding. "Kinds"? Give me a break.