CJD

Er, "written," that is.

emotional

So, CJD, if I get it right, then when the Bible says:

then it is speaking the literal truth?

Sabine Grant

Bonjour CJD.... I have explored a similar notion in a past thread as to the validity of sustaining knowledge as unchangeable based on the reality we can percieve. It is difficult for me to reconciliate the concept of a " closed system" with the infinity of the Universe still unexplored. So many abstract thoughts can fathom some possibilities as to the existence of a natural reality which could contain natural laws yet to be discovered. Until men can experience a phenomenon or reproduce it, knowledge can remain abstract IMO.
So any claim to uphold knowledge as an absolute which cannot vary from what we know as reality can be challenged.
The fact is that as theists we deal with abstraction from demonstrated reality. We can hardly justify the term " spiritual reality". But it is real to us. We love and serve an abstract spiritual being whom we claim to be the creator of All Things including all realities and natural laws that could be emcompassed in this Universe. That notion is difficult to accept for a mind which desires to dwell on what is palpable, visible, audible etc.....basicaly on experience.
A blind person from birth cannot ever access the perception of any colors and apply them to his reality. It is meaningless. He cannot experience them.
Experiencing God on a daily basis cannot satisfy a mind avid of physical reality. That is if experience is what confirms knowledge.

As an aside.... the storms we just got in Tampa are on the way to Orlando.

Calzaer

A blind man is blind because of circumstances beyond his control. Jesus even healed blind men.

So why did God make us "spiritually blind" without someone wandering around to heal us, if he actually doesn't want us to go to hell?

No blind man in the world chose to be blind... so unless you're prepared to drop the bumper-sticker theology and admit your example is faulty, you'd best not say anything about atheists chosing their own blindness.

Calzaer

CJD: Gee, I wonder why. Only the "faith community" buys the yoga-master twisting of verses to make it all fit together? ("Judas was hung and THEN he spilled foward and his guts burst! Yeah!")

Goliath

Mediancat,

Although it is interesting, your analogy ultimately fails, since the director and screenwriters of Buffy are not allegedly omnipotent, omnisicient beings.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Sabine Grant

Bonjour calzaer..... my example has nothing to do with any symbolism you thought I attributed to atheists. That example was to remain in the context of what I was supporting. That is that experience is what confirms knowledge and perception of the reality has a lot to do with being able to experience it. I could have chosen any kinds of sensorial handicap to illustrate the close relation between perception and reality. I never stated that atheists choose their own blindness. I have no clue how you could take my statements and attribute them to any negative notions related to atheists. Please quote where I am relating that statement to " atheists choosing their own blindness". That was not even a theological argument on my part. There is no bumper sticker to drop. Or do you see red any time a theist happens to be the poster?

I believe you read in my words what may have been told to you by other theists. I never meant any of what you claim I meant. It is a really twisted interpretation on your part.

It is amazing how the content of an entire post can be ignored and one sentence be taken out of context to nurture some negative interpretation of someone's thoughts.

If you desire to maintain that I meant to express all that you relate in your response you will have to do better than look for trouble where there is none.

Sabine Grant

And again... another phrase taken out of the context CJD honestly revealed his choices, to look for some adversarial comment. Do you have anything else to add which would refute what both CJD and myself presented on the topic of claiming to uphold knowledge. For example...... do you think knowledge is relative to experience? should reality be soly based on concrete facts or can abstract notions be allowed to forsee possible realities? I am willing to discuss those themes... but you will need to bark at another tree if you just want to bark.

Amaranth

I disagree, Goliath. Within the concept of the show, they could be effectively omnipotent and omniscient. After all, they write what happens. Of course, ultimately you have a triumverate...oh dear.

"Please don't let spike be dead. In the name of the writers, the director, and the actors I pray. Amen."

Goliath

Amaranth,

But they are human, and therefore neither omnipotent nor omniscient. What is more, a television show is not a religion. The analogy still fails.

Besides, an analogy does not a logical argument make.

Sincerely,

Goliath