Alan G

^^

Just to make clear up that I was quoting someone and never said that myself :S

Asha'man

But the Bible tells us things that only God could possibly know. (That includes everything about heaven, hell, salvation, etc) If God didn�t actually tell us those things, then man must have invented it.

There are probably more than a million fundies within a hundred miles of me. I don�t care what the majority is worldwide, the local infestation is far more important to my daily life. That is the reality. Live with it.

scombrid

Uh, we have a communication problem here. Well that or you read into my post one of your preconceptions about atheists. We obviously haven't examined enough options or applied the right logic if we don't believe.

I don't hold the false dichotomy. That position is reserved for biblical literalist. Evolution had nothing to do with my lack of religion. An argument with a literalist just happened to be the catalyst that led to a re-examination of my beliefs and self discovery of a serious lack of belief of which I had not really been cognizant. I disbelieve the contextualist reading of the bible as well. Having been to Catholic and Episcopal schools, I'm quite familiar with treating the bible as allegory. It makes it easier to pull out the good parts and trash the non-sense. I happily twisted observational reality to fit with my belief for years; shoehorning ordinary coincidence into divine intervention and imagining the fingerprint of god in evolution.

Reread my post and you'll see that I didn't say that I gave up belief when I realized that the bible couldn't be taken literally. I gave up literal belief long before I quit believing. I went to Episcopal elementary and Catholic high schools. Though I was raised going to Baptist Sunday school and services, by the time I was in 5th or 6th grade I tended to look derisively at my literalist counterparts. I wound up hating going to Sunday school because at age 10-11 I had more scientific education and knowledge than most of my Sunday school teachers and their astounding ignorance was maddening.

DBT

I don't mean any disrespect, I was just wondering if anyone is willing to say why exactly they believe the bible is true when it says that Jesus is the Lord and God is real?

RufusAtticus

Yet how did wolves ever give birth to dogs? Wolves give birth to cubs not puppies.

Of course he shouldn't have any problem with humans and chimps being related after all it's just apes giving birth to apes, mammals giving birth to mammals, etc.

pz

Yes, I agree that this is entirely true.

One very sad fact of life, though, is that the sensible majority seem to cave in all too quickly on the evolution/creation debate, and seem more willing to listen to the claims of any passing, unqualified fundamentalist than to their local biology professor.

We also see that the fundamentalists are more vocal, better organized, and have much more clout in politics than your average non-literalist christian. Why isn't this majority rising up en masse and protesting how the fundamentalists have hijacked their faith, and turned it into a disgraceful, ridiculous mockery?

RufusAtticus

Because they are busy feeding and clothing the poor.

demoninho

any figures on the rates between fundies and non-literalists? has the rate changed in the last few years? is fundamentalism rising or are they just getting more succesful politically?

pz

I think there is a continuum, and that people tend to wobble around in the range too much to make it practical to measure. I also think it's one of those things impossible to poll: ask random christians whether they believe the bible is the literal, inerrant word of god, and many would just say "yes" without thinking.

The truth is, I'm merely taking it on faith that the majority of christians are not moronic fundamentalist wack-jobs -- most that I talk to aren't, although there may be a bit of selection going on there. Don't disillusion me if I'm wrong.

demoninho

Just saw a documentary on dutch tv about religous indoctrination of the youth in the us and canada, something like "rock for christ"? They seem to be getting more agresive in their tactics of bringing their message across, and no real counter mesures from the atheist/scientific side. They basicly said indoctrinate the youth today and tomorrow we'll seize power.

anyway on topic: i finally met one too, the mother of my son (just an edit to say she �s really nice but just yec, in case of misunderstandings)