Jehanne

The crimes for which one is eligible for the death penalty are usually committed by those individuals with lifelong mental illnesses, serious neurological defects, history of grave child and sexual abuse, etc. As a parent of four children, I can attest to the fact that no one is born into this World with the desire to become a mass murderer, unless he/she has some serious genetic defect in his/her brain. Yesterday, my wife was watching a program on the Discovery Health channel about a little girl who was born without a face. Would anyone here “blame�? her for having such a condition? Of course not! Clearly, a serious genetic defect, arising either from heredity, environment and/or chance, led to her condition. Likewise, some individuals are born with autism, appear perfectly normal on the outside and yet their brains, due to a serious genetic defect arising from heredity, environment and/or chance, leads them to all sorts of antisocial behaviors, including violence and murder. And yet, society “blames�? them for their actions! I am certainly not arguing that murderers and violent criminals should not be incarnated and punished, but at the same time, early intervention and treatment can make all the difference in the World! Consider this:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...d=1528&scid=64

BDS

It is a well known fact that anyone who begins a sentence with "it is a well known fact" will continue that sentence with something that is NOT a well known fact, but may be a "commonly held opinion". Therefore, no reasonable person would believe that I was ACTUALLY claiming that it is a well known fact that Western Europeans are wimps. Indeed, such an opinion does not lend itself to being "factual".

Parse that mangled logic, if you can!

Yahzi

Monkeys object to unfair wage practices. Is that a cultural construct?

Did Yahzi say that? Why no, Yahzi did not. Yahzi does wonder, however, why BDS decided to invite this strawman to the party.

Viti

I do not believe there is any evidence that anti-social personality disorder (sociopathy, as in most serial killers) responds to treatment. Also, the evidence is strong that sociopaths know the difference between right and wrong, can control their actions, but they simply don't care about others. If they can choose to NOT murder, why shouldn't we blame them for those actions? And most violent tendencies are not discovered early enough to be treated "early".

So, what do you suggest we do with them?


Also, I have never read anywhere that autism is correlated to violence and murder...care to evidence that claim bolded below? Was it a typo?

Sarpedon

Ok, sorry, I sometimes have trouble detecting sarcasm. Especially on one of the so called serious forums. Carry on.

Yahzi

So what?

I agree that how much a society spends on its dysfunctional members is an indication of how civilized it is. But that is not what we are arguing about.

It is one thing to say that how society treats criminals is a valid concern; it is something else to say that criminals deserve to be treated a certain way. Do you see the difference?


Then no one is born into this world to become a heroic fireman, unless she has some serious genetic advantage in his/her brain.

If you take away all responsiblity from criminals, you also take away all credit from achievers. While I recognize that people are biological machines, I also recognize they can make what appear to be free will choices, and indeed must be treated as if they can make free will choices or the entire system collapses. Consequently, I have no sympathy for the people who allow themselves to slide from brain defect into murder. There are plenty of brain-defective people who don't let that happen; there are plenty of paedophiles that simply never allow themselves to be in the same room with a child unsupervised, just like there are alcoholics that don't go to bars.

Mind you, I don't necessarily hate violent monsters; some of them are just like rabid dogs, that you have to shoot because there is nothing else you can do with them. Sure, you feel kind of sorry for the dog. But you shoot him anyway.

And then there are people who know perfectly well what they are doing is wrong. You can tell, because they hide it and lie about it. That's not brain defect; that's just evil.

Yahzi

I personally know a sociopath that has consciously chosen not to commit crimes out of fear of punishment. He's not, in any way, a nice guy; but he pays his taxes, served his country in war, is generous when the mood strikes him, and has avoided committing any major felonies. He simply made the realization that as tough as he is, he can't defeat the entire American armed forces (police and others), and therefore has to live by their rules.

It can be done.

BDS

Some objections may be cultural, others may not. However "crime" is defined as "breaking the law". And law is a cultural construct. People would object to being beaten up whether or not such behavior were a "crime".

However, the concept of "crime" is purely cultural, although objections to "violence" are not.

Jehanne

Here's the DSM-IV entry:

http://www.psyweb.com/Mdisord/jsp/personalityDis.jsp

And, for psychopaths:

http://www.psyweb.com/Mdisord/jsp/anpd.jsp

Life in prison without parole:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...id=555&scid=59


No, it was not. See this:

http://www.autism.org/dsm.html

Note the article's emphasis on "antisocial" behavior. Here's the DSM criteria:

http://www.psychologynet.org/autism.html

Jehanne

Of course! No one is saying that criminals should not be punished!

So, schizophrenics can “control�? their voices, hallucinations, etc. And, epileptics can control their seizures, also!

So, the little girl who was "born without a face" can someday be Miss America if she just chooses.

The scholastics from the Middle Ages would agree with you 100% but modern psychology/psychiatry would not see free will as being the simple “black/white�? paradigm that you are making it out to be!

So, you are saying that there are no mentally insane people?!! (Do you believe that all Alzheimer’s patients are simply “faking it�? and are just choosing “not to remember�????)

This is why mental illness, retardation, etc, is often referred to as a spectrum disorder and not something that is “black/white�?. Everyone and everyone’s condition is different!

Say that to those dozens of individuals who came within hours of being executed only to be found innocent years later.

In the case of people, such is not necessary, however! An alternative exists called Life in Prison Without Parole!

Where does "evil" come from?